Just as an exercise in logic, I don’t believe that’s true. Bill Monroe is acclaimed as a pioneer and innovator, who launched the careers of other artists(Flatt & Scruggs, according to what I’ve read). Vince Gill had a solid career as a solo artist and is considered to be a good guitatirst, but there’s nothing particularly pathbreaking about his career. If we’re going by intangibles, I’d put Randy Travis in before Gill and maybe Garth. Travis–even more than George Strait, at the time– was widely acknowledged as having spearheaded the New Traditional movement and was praised as being one of the greatest SINGERS–intonation, resonance, phrasing–in the history of the format.

And no, I have not based my support for Kenny Rogers strictly on his country chart performance. (You won’t hear me saying that TG Shepard belongs in the H-o-F, just because he had umpteen #1 country hits in a row.) My support for Rogers is based on the fact that he was a superstar who transcended the genre, yet was always presented as a country artist; that he was highly successful in every facet–radio, records, concerts, acting, and collaboration with other artists–and that Rogers and his songs are iconic: Anyone over the age of 40 (and a lot of younger people) could probably sing along to more than a dozen of them.

If you truly don’t think that Kenny Rogers is a far more significant artist than Vince Gill….Well, this topic is played out–I’m not gonna change your mind.

Regrettably, Mr. Monroe was a far less popular live performer and has been listened to as a recording artist far less than even Vince Gill, never mind Kenny Rogers. And, of course, I’m referring to the same country chart on which Mr. Rogers performed in a way that impresses you so much; as a country artist (which is why he’s in the Country Music Hall of Fame), Monroe appeared on the country chart, but didn’t do very well. Didn’t score a single gold or platinum record, either.

Therefore, if you believe that Rogers’ greater popularity – more tickets and records sold, more #1 hits, etc. – is sufficient to make him a better candidate for the Hall than Gill, you must also believe that it is sufficient to make him a better candidate for the Hall than Monroe, and better than many other folks who are already in the Hall, too. And you have said nothing to indicate that you have any other arrow in your Rogers-over-Gill quiver. Zero, zip, nada.

So I find it less likely that you didn’t explain your position as clearly as you think than that you didn’t think through your position until it was clearly explained.

Dear nm, now I’m done.

And, Jon, I tend to agree with you on this issue. But I don’t think you have anything to say to LoS about it that you haven’t said already.

So could we give it a rest?

Much love from nm

There is nothing–NOTHING!–in what I’ve written that suggests that I believe that Bill Monroe–who’s universally credited as the founder of bluegrass (whether that’s a bit of an oversimplification or not)–should not be in the Country Music Hall of Fame. As far as I know, bluegrass did not even HAVE a chart in Monroe’s day–but he was an extremely popular live performer, and his recordings have been listened to and influential for generations.

I said that Kenny Rogers should have been inducted into the H-o-F already because he was a huge star in multiple facets of the music-entertainment arena for decades. He sold huge numbers of albums and was a major concert draw and TV movie star. Vince Gill sings back-up on other artists records–and that’s laudable. Kenny Rogers had bona fide #1 hits dueting with other artists–both male and female; both straight country and from R&B and other genres. Oh, and he came back and had a number 1 country hit in the Garth-and-Tim era–when he was like 60 years old! Is that saying that “stats are all you need”?? In your mind, it appears.

As far as the obnoxiousness threshold: I strive hard in these colloquies to be slightly more polite and entertaining–and slightly less rude, condescending and obnoxious than you. Thankfully, you give me so much leeway that it’s not really a constraint.

To someone who doesn’t get what music is, I’d guess that’s true.

But, of course, if stats were the only basis for deciding who gets inducted into the Country Music Hall Of Fame, one wouldn’t need nominations or voters. You’d simply figure out how many slots to fill each year, then work out some algorithm that would give the top n people based on their stats, and that would be it.

But that’s not what the Country Music Hall of Fame is about. Its purpose is to “recognize significant contributions to the advancement of country music by individuals in both the creative and business communities.”

Deciding who’s made significant contributions and where they fit into the big country music picture involves judgment; it involves an understanding of the music, an understanding of the industry and more – and while it’s always debatable as to whether the voters have demonstrated good judgment in those terms when they make the choices they do, it’s not even remotely debatable that simply adding up charting singles, tickets sold, etc. in some kind of formula doesn’t.

So if you don’t understand why folks who were never the biggest stars in country music – or any other kind of music – like Bill Monroe, or the Louvin Brothers, or LIttle Jimmie Dickens are in the Hall, or why Vince Gill went in before Garth Brooks, well, like I said, it shows that there’s something pretty fundamental about music (and country music in particular) that you just don’t get.