Tornados Rip Apart Branson; Davy Jones Passes Away and Carrie Underwood Has Top Single

Ken Morton, Jr. | March 1st, 2012

  • Devastating tornados tore through Missouri’s country music and entertainment capital of Branson early yesterday. The EF2 tornado had winds of up to 130 mph and was on the ground for about 20 miles according the National Weather Service. It smashed seven miles of the town’s commercial strip, hop scotching and demolishing different theater venues along the way. Five or six of the theaters have substantial damage. 33 people were reported with injuries.
  • The Monkees’ Davy Jones passed away from a sudden heart attack this week at the age of 66. While he was most associated with the pop-rock band, he and the band did have country music connections. Anne Murray hit #3 in 1979 with their “Daydream Believer” and The Grascals just recently covered “Last Train to Clarksville.”
  • Sugarland will be taking requests on their next big national tour.
  • Whitney Self has an interview with Jessi Colter over at CMT.com. On her husband Waylon Jennings, “His vision, his determination, was just indefatigable. You couldn’t stop him. He stayed under the radar even though he was huge and broke records. He wasn’t out there for fame, and there were many opportunities and managers, many things that just didn’t all line up. He believed in lining up the signs. If something was presented to him and he ran into say, three obstacles, he’d drop it because he would want to change the chain of events.”
  • Carrie Underwood’s new single ‘Good Girl’ made its debut at number one on Billboard’s Digital Country Songs chart.
  • The boys of Rascal Flatts gave Sara Evans a crimson red Jeep as a thank-you for opening up for them on their most recent tour.
  • Blake Shelton has been doing a cover of Cee Lo Green’s “Forget You” in concert lately (with video).
  • Recent NPR Mountain Stage performances include recorded concerts from Blind Boys of Alabama, Wailin’ Jennys and Amos Lee.
  • Trisha Yearwood will be doing a concert with Paul Simon and Josh Groban in support of Paul Newman’s charities April 2 in New York.
  • Sherrie Austin will be doing a private concert performance via a StageIt performance on March 7th.
  • Music Fog has new music from Ray Wylie Hubbard.
  • Dustin Lynch is making his Grand Ole Opry debut this Friday.
  • Nashville guitarist Billy Johnson passed away at the age of 51. He played with Porter Wagoner, Connie Smith, Jeannie Seely and Jim Ed Brown.
  • Internet rumors are going around that the newest Country Music Hall of Fame inductees will be announced next week. Who is the one artist you’d like to see get in?
  1. Ben Foster
    March 1, 2012 at 11:32 am

    •Internet rumors are going around that the newest Country Music Hall of Fame inductees will be announced next week. Who is the one artist you’d like to see get in?

    Connie Smith, Connie Smith, Connie Smith :)

  2. Ken Morton, Jr.
    March 1, 2012 at 11:47 am

    •Internet rumors are going around that the newest Country Music Hall of Fame inductees will be announced next week. Who is the one artist you’d like to see get in?

    I’m crossing my fingers for either Kenny Rogers or Ronnie Milsap to get the nod this year.

  3. bob
    March 1, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Ronnie Milsap would be my choice. I’d also love to see John Denver make it but I’m sure that will never happen.

  4. nm
    March 1, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    As always, I’d like to see Rose Maddox get the nod, but I guess I’m resigned by now to it never happening. I’d be cool with Connie Smith.

  5. bll
    March 1, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    I would love to see John Denver inducted, but even he stated he was folk rather than country; still it would be nice. Rose Maddox is well past due.

  6. Barry Mazor
    March 1, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    The announcement of the next HoF inductees will be Tuesday morning. I’ll be there and report back..

  7. Ken Morton, Jr.
    March 1, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Barry, I’m interested to know who you’d like to see go in this year.

  8. Barry Mazor
    March 1, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Well, one thing people don’t discuss much is that this is the year where the revolving “third” category–besides current era and earlier–is instrumentalist. I’m just glad they added this category (and songwriters, too, in other years)..because so many great country players had not gotten in. There are next to no fiddlers (other than Mr Wills!) , keyboard players, bass players, dobro players, banjo players, etc etc.–and not even all that many guitarists, as such. So there’s a LOT of room there, and lots of right answers..

    With the time I’ve spent working with Connie Smith and her music (my book on her that’s in with her new Bear Family set is just out) I’d be dishonest to say anything other than I’d hope to see her get in–at last–and as I may have pointed out before, Jean Shepard having been admitted should clear the way in the voting–whether now or sometime soon. My own opinion, working forward, is that the next female vocalist after Connie should be Tanya Tucker. And then I think they’ll be about ready for Patty Loveless in the modern era..Maybe!

    There are 80s stars not yet caught up with that I’d hope to see soon– Randy Travis, John Anderson..Ricky Skaggs. I’d think that Ronnie Milsap and Kenny Rogers have shots..and there’s no way that Garth Brooks won’t be admitted later–and maybe sooner. Hank, Jr. These things have sort of gone in chrono order.

    Except for historical greats that have been overlooked,and I could list those all day. Ones I’d love to see in, just because it’s right: Johnny Horton, Maddox Brothers and Rose, Lulu Belle and Scotty, Milton Brown, The Stanley Brothers, Mac Wiseman..Jerry Lee Lewis..

    Truly, I could go on and on. Like the music does.

  9. sheldon
    March 1, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Dottie West would be a welcome addition to the HOF.

  10. Rick
    March 1, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    Since Rebecca Lynn Howard’s recent “StageIt” online concert was in her pajamas, is there any chance Sherrie Austin will be in that bikini she wore in her recent music video? I can guarantee it would increase the number of viewers if she did! (Well, by at least one anyway…lol)

    CMHOF: Rose Maddox! It was Rose’s style, sass, and attitude that laid down the pathway for Jean Shepard out in the formative Bakersfield music scene in the late 40′s and early 1950′s. That’s why we need a “Bakersfield Country Music Hall of Fame” out here in California to honor Rose’s memory the way she deserves! Crikey!

    So when is Blake going to add an Xtina song to his live show? Hmm…

    I might have to wade into the putrid slime of the NPR ZONE to listen to that Amos Lee performance. I need to stock up on my mental disinfectants first.

  11. luckyoldsun
    March 1, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    From the outside, it appears that the hall is as much–or more–an “Opry Hall of Fame” than a “Country Music Hall of Fame.”

    There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why certain artists of great accomplishment–Jerry Lee Lewis, Bobby Bare, Kenny Rogers, Ronnie Milsap have not been inducted while a few others of far lesser accomplishment are in.

    And those in charge show real provincialism and short-sightedness by not inducting Ray Charles. Funny thing is, when they ultimately do vote Ray in, it will do more for the stature and reputation of the H-o-F than for Charles.

  12. Barry Mazor
    March 1, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    There are only a few people admitted per year. It is supposed to be tough to get in. It takes time. Many that are in had nothing to do with the Opry. The CMA, which administers the voting and nominations, was founded precisely to be an industry wide organization NOT simply focused on the Opry or any other one element. Those are known facts.

  13. Occasional Hope
    March 1, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    Barry, can you tell us how the voting works? Is tehre any kind of a shortlist submitted to members, or is it basically a write-in and whoever gets the most nominations gets in?

  14. Barry Mazor
    March 1, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    I can tell you just so much–and it’s public info.(There are pamphlets available at the Hall of Fame which explain this, for instance.) There’s a nominating committee selected by the CMA, which includes admitted members of the Hall of Fame, and others from varied industry jobs. They come up with the nomination lists, from which the voters choose. And the outcome is very secret, I can assure you, as a reporter.

  15. Jon
    March 1, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    Those are known facts.

    Like that makes a difference.

  16. luckyoldsun
    March 1, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    Gee, I thought they hold a press conference to announce the outcome–and then hold a public ceremony to celebrate it.

  17. Jordan Stacey
    March 1, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Connie Smith
    Rose Maddox
    Ronnie Milsap
    Kenny Rogers
    Garth Brooks

    Those are the top picks for me in order of how I’d like them to go.

  18. Barry Mazor
    March 1, 2012 at 10:59 pm

    In case that was not a joke of some sort, as it seems: The outcome is secret before they announce it. That’s just how it is with secrets.

  19. luckyoldsun
    March 2, 2012 at 1:30 am

    Oh.

    According to the news item at the top of this thread, not only is the outcome secret, but the day that the secret will be revealed is apparently also a secret.

    That’s how they keep the secret–by piggybacking one secret on top of another secret. I love it! They merged the CMA with the CIA!

  20. Paul W Dennis
    March 2, 2012 at 6:25 am

    •Internet rumors are going around that the newest Country Music Hall of Fame inductees will be announced next week. Who is the one artist you’d like to see get in?

    Connie Smith

    I’d also like to see Gene Watson get in

  21. Barry Mazor
    March 2, 2012 at 8:49 am

    See if you can follow this Luckyo:” At the time of the “rumors” report, the date was not yet announced. Then it was. It’s CIA stuff, truly.

  22. Ken Johnson
    March 2, 2012 at 11:29 am

    When the Country Music Hall Of Fame first began it seemed that the criteria for inductees was centered on individuals who made long-lasting, influentual and often unique contributions to country music. It was not just a popularity contest. Performers were not solely judged by how many chart hits they had or how many albums they sold. An honor is only significant if the bar is set high. What good is an exclusive club if everyone is allowed admission? It lessens the value of membership and the devalues the prestige of the institution.

    Over the past few years I’ve noticed quite a few inductees who don’t seem to fit the above criteria. It has devolved into some kind of political game. Worthy candidates are overlooked again and again for those with less significant contributions. Example: Why it took so many years to induct Jimmy Dean is a mystery. Talk about a guy who helped to expand the audience for country music with a network TV show back when country performers were seldom offered a national platform. His TV show turbo-charged the careers of many 1960′s country stars including Buck Owens.

    Perhaps the Nashville country music industry needs to create an alternative institution just to honor those who are great singers and performers but are not really innovators or game changers. Country Music Hall Of Fame membership should be reserved only for those whose contributions are truly significant. And the Hall Of Fame nominating committee needs to include members old enough to remember performers & members of the country music industry prior to the Urban Cowboy & Garth Brooks eras.

  23. Barry Mazor
    March 2, 2012 at 11:51 am

    You willing to have “game changers” included that changed the games in w ays you don’t prefer, Ken? Because it’s a lot, lot easier to show that the choices simply, for the most part, continue to move forward in time, and if nominees were still mostly people loved in the 40s or 50s or even 60s, you’d have a dead hall of fame for Country Music That Was– Only.

    There’s been no substantial change in the basic ideas if who go s into the Hall, but there have been many changes in country. (And it would be dead, too, if there weren’t.)

    I’m not sure where your assumptions about the ages of nominating committee members come from at all.

  24. Ken Johnson
    March 2, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Barry that was not my point at all. I was pointing out that recently they have been inducting individuals with lesser credentials while overlooking significant contributors including many from the 1950′s & ’60′s. No question that time marches on and those who have achieved fame and/or significance in recent years deserve consideration too. But it seems that their inclusion has been at the expense of many who should have been inducted many years ago.

    I was told by someone from the nominating committee a few years ago that he felt many fellow members had very little knowledge of pre-1980 country music.

  25. Barry Mazor
    March 2, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    And my point is that “pre-1980″ at this point, means pre-32 years ago. The modern day category of nominations has existed for many years, and it moves forward, necessarily.

    And therefore, yes, acts like Alabama (game changers, by the way) or Emmylou Harris (also a game changer) got in before Connie Smith. But there is still the category that has room for her, and I hope she’ll take it–soon. I’ve mentioned other early acts–and I could name a lot more–that I take to be historically worthy. To me, it’s GOOD news that it’s still possible for inductees to come from earlier eras.

    When the Hall first opened, none of the inductees had come from all THAT long before! (Even Jimmie Rodgers was from just 27 years earlier–which would be 1985 now.) There are a lot more years to deal with by this point.

    And it’s worth noting–not for the first time–that induction into the Hall of fame as a member with a wall plaque is not at all the only way a performer or writer or producer is recognized there. Many of those regularly pointed to as people “who should be recognized by the Hall” in fact are–in the museum, as it spells out and shows country music history.

  26. Occasional Hope
    March 2, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Thanks for the info, Barry. I wonder if the same names appear repeatedly on the shortlist.

  27. luckyoldsun
    March 2, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    “recently they have been inducting individuals with lesser credentials while overlooking significant contributors including many from the 1950′s & ’60′s”

    Ken–
    The problem with your argument is you don’t give a clue as to who these lesser credentialed individuals that you denigrate are. The post-’50s-’60s artists who’ve been inducted in the past decade–and whom you might conceivably be referring to–are Reba McEntire, Don Williams, Barbara Mandrell, Roy Clark, Emmylou Harris, Tom T. Hall, Vince Gill, George Strait, Alabama, Glen Campbell and Kris Kristofferson. (Isn’t Wikipedia great?)

    Now I like some of those artists and I don’t care all that much for a couple of them. But I can’t see where a single one of them does not have “credentials” that match up to those of your uninducted ’50s-’60s artists.

    Seems to me that your position boils down to “The artists that I like should get into the HoF.”

  28. luckyoldsun
    March 2, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    “…and those that I don’t care for should not get in.”

  29. colkid
    March 5, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Do Reba, Don, Barbara Roy,Tom T.,Vince deserve to be
    in the hall of fame?? Do they elect some of these people too soon??
    Liking these artists doesn’t make them worthy of
    the Hall of Fame. I think the Country Hall of Fame
    has some marginal people in it.
    If your around long enough, go on enough TV
    shows your in.

  30. Barry Mazor
    March 5, 2012 at 10:48 am

    None of those you note, Colkid, were elected particularly “sooner” than the Acuffs or Johnny Cashes or Dolly Partons from the start and top of THEIR careers.. . That’s a common misconception..

  31. nm
    March 5, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    I think Vince Gill actually was inducted “early.” (Obviously, he was going to go in eventually, one way or another.) And that was because he’s always doing so many things for the Hall of Fame and the CMA both: hosting shows, raising money, all that stuff. I think he got associated with them in people’s minds in a way that got him a quick vote. All the others Colkid mentions, though, seem to have been inducted along the same sort of time-line as anyone else.

  32. luckyoldsun
    March 5, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    The H-o-F voters seem to like the Nashville-sound pop country of the ’60s, but they have a problem with the later pop-rock sound of the ’70s–’80s. There’s simply no other reason for Kenny Rogers, Ronnie Milsap and even Earl Conley not being in. They only have about a hundred #1 hits between/among them.

    I agree with NM that Vince Gill got in quite a bit early–and the reasons that NM gives sound correct to me. I don’t think Gill should have jumped the artists mentioned above–or even Randy Travis, for that matter, who brought the New Traditional movement into the mainstream even more than George Strait did.

  33. Jon
    March 5, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    “There’s simply no other reason” = “I, myself, personally, can’t think of a reason.”

  34. Barry Mazor
    March 5, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    I can think of a reason: haven’t gotten to them yet.

  35. luckyoldsun
    March 5, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    “There’s simply no other reason” = “I, myself, personally, can’t think of a reason.”

    Actually, I started off by GIVING a reason.

    “I can think of a reason: haven’t gotten to them yet.”
    “They haven’t gotten to them yet” does as much to explan the exclusion of Kenny Rogers and Ronnie Milsap after Vince Gill and Emmylou Harris have been admitted as it would to explain the exclusion of Frank Robinson and Johnny Bench from the Baseball Hall of Fame if they were still waiting when the Hall went and inducted Kirby Pucket and Gary Carter. It’s begging the question. I have no problem with them all being admitted to the two halls, but the relative merits are pretty clear.

  36. Barry Mazor
    March 5, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    I suspect highly that the relative merits of say, Kenny Rogers versus say, Vince Gil or Emmylou Harris might not be quite “clear” to some as to you Luckyol, possibly, but the voting outcomes (so far, and I’d stress that yet again–so far, despite the baseball analogy), suggests, at the very least that those already voted in found a consensus first.

    IMHO,m one thing the Baseball Hall of fame does that I’d like to see the Country hall adopt some day is to have a separate “veterans/Old Timers” admission process after some (long) amount of time has passed without admission–perhaps a board oh historians, so somebody from 50 years-plus back not as well known to voters today as they once might have been can still get that recognition. (How many contemporary baseball sportswriters know all that much about pre-World War I ballplayers? That;s one way the more distant achievers could be included.)

    For more recent potential inductees–the only real answer to getting more people in faster (if that’s what somebody really wanted to do) would be to bring in more at a time. And one thing I do know is that there’s a feeling that if they brought in say 5 or 6 in a year instead of just 3, there’d be less splash for each of the new inductees. And there’s a point to that.

  37. Jon
    March 5, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    “I suspect highly that the relative merits of say, Kenny Rogers versus say, Vince Gil or Emmylou Harris might not be quite “clear” to some as to you…”

    Ya think?

    The baseball comparison is revealing. Baseball is the ultimate game of individual stat-keeping, and even there, there are always plenty of intangibles to take into account. It takes a remarkable failure of perception to think it’s an appropriate analog to music.

  38. luckyoldsun
    March 5, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    I’m not even personally a big Kenny Rogers fan. I have bought and accumulated well over 2,000 CDs over the years–which includes, 3 by Kenny Rogers.

    But that does not prevent me from acknowledging that Rogers was a multi-media entertainment superstar from the late’60s into the ’90s; that records of his like “The Gambler,” “Lucille,” “Islands in the Stream,” etc. and his TV and movie appearances and persona are indelible parts of Americana (and I don’t mean the current music genre) from the era. It would be fair to say that Kenny Rogers–along with Dolly Parton and Willie Nelson–were America’s country music stars.

    Barry, Vince Gill strikes me as a pretty astute guy who knows just about everything there is to know about the music and entertainment industry and everyone’s place in it. It’s just my hunch but I would bet that when Vince Gill and Kenny Rogers encounter each other at some event, that Gill makes some show of deference to Rogers just as he would when he encounters Merle Haggard or Paul McCartney. I’m sure that Gill would acknowledge without any shame that Kenny Rogers is a more significant artist than he is.

    I think it’s incredibly shabby and short-sighted that the Country Music Hall of Fame has not enthusiastically thrown open its doors to Kenny Rogers and that he will have to settle for a belated, grudging admission at some future irrelevant date.

  39. Jon
    March 5, 2012 at 11:44 pm

    Sure of your hunch, are ya?

  40. luckyoldsun
    March 6, 2012 at 2:13 am

    Do you have a point, or is this just a manifestation of your recently contracted compulsion to impersonate Tina Fey doing Sara Palin? “Ya think? Are ya? Ya Betcha!”

  41. Jon
    March 6, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Yeah, my point is that you’re talking through your hat. You feel like Kenny Rogers ought to be in the Hall, great – although as I suggested, if you think your Cooperstown analogy is the best case you can make, there’s something pretty fundamental about music that you just don’t get. But uninformed speculation about what Vince Gill thinks about Kenny Rogers is worthless, and pronouncing yourself as “sure” of it doesn’t even rise to the level of worthless.

    Which means that your dudgeon over Rogers not being a member of the Hall to date is based on 1) a stunningly inapt analogy, and 2) worthless fantasy. Not exactly compelling arguments.

  42. Ken Morton, Jr.
    March 6, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Hargus “Pig” Robbins is the first Class of 2012 inductee this morning at the Country Music Hall of Fame. You can stream it live here:
    http://www.livestream.com/cma

  43. Ken Morton, Jr.
    March 6, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Connie Smith is inductee #2. :)

  44. Ken Morton, Jr.
    March 6, 2012 at 10:49 am

    And Garth Brooks is being announced as inductee #3 as we speak.

  45. nm
    March 6, 2012 at 10:51 am

    It was gonna happen.

  46. luckyoldsun
    March 6, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    Jon–
    Your vaunted powers of deduction and logic seem to have deserted you.

    Even a mere average person could see that my “dudgeon over Rogers not being a member of the Hall” is not BASED on my analogy to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

    My “case for” Rogers meriting early Hall of Fame induction was based on his history of creating scores of hit records–which have remained part of the American landscape for decades!–selling platinum albums by the shipload, being a multimedia superstar and worldwide concert draw.

    My ANALOGY of Rogers to a Baseball Hall of Famer was based on his clearly meriting induction to the Country Hall–not the other way around, despite your lapse of comprehension.

    But thanks for pointing out that Kenny Rogers is not Frank Robinson and Vince Gill is not Kirby Puckett. Of course, that’s what makes an analogy an analogy. If the people were actually the same, it wouldn’t be an analogy–It would be a parallel reality, I suppose.

  47. Jon
    March 6, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    “My “case for” Rogers meriting early Hall of Fame induction was based on his history of creating scores of hit records–which have remained part of the American landscape for decades!–selling platinum albums by the shipload, being a multimedia superstar and worldwide concert draw.”

    In other words, your case is based on his stats, and you’re irate because other artists with inferior stats have been inducted earlier. Much like one would make a case for a candidate for that other Hall of Fame, the one in Cooperstown. A comparison which you then went on to make explicit – and, one that, like I said, demonstrates that there’s something pretty fundamental about music that you just don’t get.

    I do appreciate, though, the gracelessly tacit admission that your invocation of Vince Gill was a matter of pure fantasy.

  48. luckyoldsun
    March 7, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    Jon–

    I made the argument based on “stats” because that’s the only basis for arguing this kind of thing. If I tried to argue that Rogers is a “better” artist than Gill, I’d get you even madder.

    It’s called a Hall of Fame for a reason, presumably. People are generally inducted for their impact on the market. Johnny Cash got into the Hall early because he was a great American star. If he had made the same recordings but they had not broken through and been successful, nobody would have tried to put him in the Hall. Kenny Rogers was also a great American star. He was the biggest star in country music for several years and was one of the major entertainment personalities of the ’70s-’80s.

    Has Vince Gill ever been even one of the top 3 current stars just in country music–(let alone any broader music/entertainment landscape)? Absolutely not! Has Gill ever been even one of the top 5 stars in country music? I’d say the answer is still “No.”

    Whatever the reason for the Country Hall’s snub of Rogeres–Maybe the fact that he had huge hit records with Lionel Richie and Kim Carnes is actually held against him–it has zero impact on his stature. It only diminishes the H-o-F.

  49. Jon
    March 7, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    “I made the argument based on “stats” because that’s the only basis for arguing this kind of thing.”

    To someone who doesn’t get what music is, I’d guess that’s true.

    But, of course, if stats were the only basis for deciding who gets inducted into the Country Music Hall Of Fame, one wouldn’t need nominations or voters. You’d simply figure out how many slots to fill each year, then work out some algorithm that would give the top n people based on their stats, and that would be it.

    But that’s not what the Country Music Hall of Fame is about. Its purpose is to “recognize significant contributions to the advancement of country music by individuals in both the creative and business communities.”

    Deciding who’s made significant contributions and where they fit into the big country music picture involves judgment; it involves an understanding of the music, an understanding of the industry and more – and while it’s always debatable as to whether the voters have demonstrated good judgment in those terms when they make the choices they do, it’s not even remotely debatable that simply adding up charting singles, tickets sold, etc. in some kind of formula doesn’t.

    So if you don’t understand why folks who were never the biggest stars in country music – or any other kind of music – like Bill Monroe, or the Louvin Brothers, or LIttle Jimmie Dickens are in the Hall, or why Vince Gill went in before Garth Brooks, well, like I said, it shows that there’s something pretty fundamental about music (and country music in particular) that you just don’t get.

  50. Andrew
    March 8, 2012 at 12:56 am

    Please tell me I’m not the only person here who envisions this every time the all-knowing Jon takes it as a personal affront that someone would dare have an opinion he doesn’t agree with: http://xkcd.com/386/

  51. nm
    March 8, 2012 at 9:23 am

    The problem with the “stats tell the whole story” approach is that according to the stats, Sonny James actually does belong in the HoF. And Ozzie Smith maybe shouldn’t have gotten into Cooperstown on the first ballot. And I just can’t go along with either of those positions.

  52. Jon
    March 8, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Are you kidding? People express opinions I don’t agree with here all the time. They have to pass a pretty high threshold of obnoxiousness before I bother to say anything about them – and this one, that stats are all you need to figure out who should go into the Hall Of Fame, clears the bar by a considerable margin.

  53. luckyoldsun
    March 8, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    Jonno–
    You have a definite talent for misinterpreting and misstating someone’s position and then smacking down your own straw man.
    I certainly did not mean to say or imply “that stats are all you need to figure out who should go into the Hall Of Fame”–and I doubt that anyone other than yourself thought that that’s what I said.

    I said that Kenny Rogers should have been inducted into the H-o-F already because he was a huge star in multiple facets of the music-entertainment arena for decades. He sold huge numbers of albums and was a major concert draw and TV movie star. Vince Gill sings back-up on other artists records–and that’s laudable. Kenny Rogers had bona fide #1 hits dueting with other artists–both male and female; both straight country and from R&B and other genres. Oh, and he came back and had a number 1 country hit in the Garth-and-Tim era–when he was like 60 years old! Is that saying that “stats are all you need”?? In your mind, it appears.

    As far as the obnoxiousness threshold: I strive hard in these colloquies to be slightly more polite and entertaining–and slightly less rude, condescending and obnoxious than you. Thankfully, you give me so much leeway that it’s not really a constraint.

  54. Jon
    March 9, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Trying to refute the observation that you believe stats are all you need to figure out who should go into the Hall of Fame when by citing what amounts to a bunch of stats – ” huge star…sold huge numbers of albums…major concert draw…#1 hits…” isn’t a winning strategy. Being popular isn’t in and of itself a significant contribution to the advancement of country music. I’m guessing that when you look at the list of Hall of Fame members, you wind up scratching your head a lot. “Bill Monroe? Never even had a #1!”

  55. luckyoldsun
    March 9, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Still putting up straw men and knocking them down.Your M.O. does not change.

    There is nothing–NOTHING!–in what I’ve written that suggests that I believe that Bill Monroe–who’s universally credited as the founder of bluegrass (whether that’s a bit of an oversimplification or not)–should not be in the Country Music Hall of Fame. As far as I know, bluegrass did not even HAVE a chart in Monroe’s day–but he was an extremely popular live performer, and his recordings have been listened to and influential for generations.

  56. nm
    March 9, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    LoS, I’m not Jon. But I did read your first few posts on this thread and understand them the same way he does. So possibly you didn’t explain your position as clearly as you think you did.

    And, Jon, I tend to agree with you on this issue. But I don’t think you have anything to say to LoS about it that you haven’t said already.

    So could we give it a rest?

    Much love from nm

  57. Jon
    March 9, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    “As far as I know, bluegrass did not even HAVE a chart in Monroe’s day–but he was an extremely popular live performer, and his recordings have been listened to and influential for generations.”

    Regrettably, Mr. Monroe was a far less popular live performer and has been listened to as a recording artist far less than even Vince Gill, never mind Kenny Rogers. And, of course, I’m referring to the same country chart on which Mr. Rogers performed in a way that impresses you so much; as a country artist (which is why he’s in the Country Music Hall of Fame), Monroe appeared on the country chart, but didn’t do very well. Didn’t score a single gold or platinum record, either.

    Therefore, if you believe that Rogers’ greater popularity – more tickets and records sold, more #1 hits, etc. – is sufficient to make him a better candidate for the Hall than Gill, you must also believe that it is sufficient to make him a better candidate for the Hall than Monroe, and better than many other folks who are already in the Hall, too. And you have said nothing to indicate that you have any other arrow in your Rogers-over-Gill quiver. Zero, zip, nada.

    So I find it less likely that you didn’t explain your position as clearly as you think than that you didn’t think through your position until it was clearly explained.

    Dear nm, now I’m done.

  58. luckyoldsun
    March 10, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    “Therefore, if you believe that Rogers’ greater popularity – more tickets and records sold, more #1 hits, etc. – is sufficient to make him a better candidate for the Hall than Gill, you must also believe that it is sufficient to make him a better candidate for the Hall than Monroe”

    Just as an exercise in logic, I don’t believe that’s true. Bill Monroe is acclaimed as a pioneer and innovator, who launched the careers of other artists(Flatt & Scruggs, according to what I’ve read). Vince Gill had a solid career as a solo artist and is considered to be a good guitatirst, but there’s nothing particularly pathbreaking about his career. If we’re going by intangibles, I’d put Randy Travis in before Gill and maybe Garth. Travis–even more than George Strait, at the time– was widely acknowledged as having spearheaded the New Traditional movement and was praised as being one of the greatest SINGERS–intonation, resonance, phrasing–in the history of the format.

    And no, I have not based my support for Kenny Rogers strictly on his country chart performance. (You won’t hear me saying that TG Shepard belongs in the H-o-F, just because he had umpteen #1 country hits in a row.) My support for Rogers is based on the fact that he was a superstar who transcended the genre, yet was always presented as a country artist; that he was highly successful in every facet–radio, records, concerts, acting, and collaboration with other artists–and that Rogers and his songs are iconic: Anyone over the age of 40 (and a lot of younger people) could probably sing along to more than a dozen of them.

    If you truly don’t think that Kenny Rogers is a far more significant artist than Vince Gill….Well, this topic is played out–I’m not gonna change your mind.

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