Taylor Swift – “Mine”

Blake Boldt | August 9th, 2010

Taylor SwiftIn October, just two months before her 21st birthday, Swift will release Speak Now, her third album and first since her sweep at this year’s Grammy Awards.

After that high-profile milestone, she’s no longer been seen as invincible to the general public. Her light, airy singing voice was placed under a microscope after a series of off-key performances, including her duet with legend Stevie Nicks on that show. Though she doesn’t possess the pure vocal talent of country’s other A-list ladies, her voice will work for her style, if only she learns how to tame it.

Despite any criticisms leveled against her, Swift’s image, all brightness and beauty, is irresistible to fans who remain ardently optimistic about the power of love. Her heart’s conflicts, conveniently some would say, rarely last longer than four minutes.

It’s all part of her charm. She’s a resilient young woman who doesn’t waste time on tragedy. In that same vein, “Mine” is a mishmash of ideas bolted together by a terrific power-pop chorus that will stick in your brain after the second or third listen. Producer Nathan Chapman is behind the boards again, and his soaring, standard-issue arrangement sounds like an outtake from a Keith Urban album.

The first few moments of “Mine”—with a couple sweetly-sung “Oh, oh’s”—could be confused with the beginning of a Hannah Montana theme song. In her quavering and quite innocent tone, Swift sets the scene: “You were in college working part time waiting tables,” she remembers in the opening line. With a tangy mix of vulnerability and youthful arrogance, she often comes across as the musical offspring of Bangles leader Susanna Hoff.

On “Mine,” Swift edges ever so slowly towards a more mature perspective. This three-act story referencing “bills to pay” and “parents’ mistakes” as obstacles to budding romance. When she arrives at the single most significant line–“You made a rebel of a careless man’s careful daughter“–you’re expecting a big payoff.

That she doesn’t deliver is further proof that her songwriting skills are still raw, still needing that one last polish in order to shine. Who was this careless man and what’s he done to his daughter? That mystery remains unresolved.

As usual, Swift is convincingly dramatic as she sings about the breakups and the make-ups of her young life. Better songs would be just the thing to bring her to a new peak.

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  1. Leeann
    August 9, 2010 at 7:09 am

    I liked that line, but I was left wondering the same thing. I kept waiting for something to explain why her father was careless. Because there was no explanation, the good line ends up being something awkward.

  2. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 7:51 am

    It would also help if she explained what the rebellion was.

  3. Fizz
    August 9, 2010 at 8:44 am

    And do it quick, because the clock is ticking on her career.

  4. Thomas
    August 9, 2010 at 9:17 am

    …sounds somehow like a christmas song to me.

  5. Shannon
    August 9, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Taylor Swift songs would be better if someone else sang them… can’t get over her whiny, out-of-tune vocal.

  6. sam (sam)
    August 9, 2010 at 9:27 am

    I like this song a lot more than much of what is currently being played on the radio stations I listen to. So I hope this does very well for Swift. I wish more country singers would release material along these lines.

  7. joy
    August 9, 2010 at 10:12 am

    taylor is the only singer i like except indian singers. she seems 2 b a gud person as her songs r really touching.

  8. Josh
    August 9, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Nothing new. This track could easily been off of either of her previous CD’s. Her fan’s love her for sure! Hope that Country radio and critics will not go overboard once again. To grow one must feel the need. An over abundance of praise allows one to remain the same.

  9. klark
    August 9, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Uhm.. It’s not that bad when compared with other songs saturating the radio ryt now.

  10. Casey
    August 9, 2010 at 10:36 am

    I’m glad Taylor’s getting a review she deserves. I’m sick of her being put on this 50 foot tall golden pedestal. This song is average at best with cliche lyrics and the occasional mimic of her past songs. The song is very reminiscent of her past work. I was really hoping for a step up in maturity and sound on this album and based on this first single, I’m not gonna get that.

  11. Rick
    August 9, 2010 at 10:39 am

    I just don’t care enough about Taylor Swift or her music to even make a snarky comment. Just more of the same old, same old clever folk pop she’s renown for. ZZZZZzzzzzz….

  12. Andrew
    August 9, 2010 at 10:45 am

    I just don’t care enough about Taylor Swift or her music to even make a snarky comment.

    Yet you care enough to leave a comment telling us you don’t care? Cognitive dissonance FTW!

  13. gloria
    August 9, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Her vocals are as bad as expected. Can you imagine hearing this song live because she sounds awful even with all the studio help! I agree with Rick’s comments. Are there really thousands of people truly tone deaf??

  14. Noeller
    August 9, 2010 at 10:55 am

    I’ve read both Malek and Boldt’s reviews and I was PRAYING for some mention of how utterly horrendous the vocal is on this track. I mean, my GOD…we know she can’t sing, but this is atrocious. I had so much hope for the future after the relative genius that was “15”. It was understated and well produced. But then we get to this which is over produced and she tries to gargle the lyrics, for some reason.

    There’s a maturity to the lyrics, which is great to see, but the vocal on this track is an abomination and an affront to the music industry.

    Ugh!

  15. Chris P
    August 9, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Is it just me, or is that song in the player different from the one we are talking about?

  16. Brady Vercher
    August 9, 2010 at 11:17 am

    Chris, that definitely wasn’t the right song. It oughta be good to go now.

  17. halie
    August 9, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Taylor Swift clearly has talent. Look at how far she has come, if you don’t like her music why are you sitting here commenting on her music? She has many fans who love her, and she is amazing live!

  18. Thomas
    August 9, 2010 at 11:43 am

    …yep, the seasonal element’s gone now. interesting thread, given that up to now there was a christmas song playing instead of “mine”. no wonder, did joy find it quite touching and rick surely was asleep.

  19. Andrea
    August 9, 2010 at 11:51 am

    I have two little girls (4 and 7) who love all Taylor Swift songs. As a parent, it is great to have song options that aren’t cartoonish/princessy or too adult. Her lyrics are just perfect for little girls. So no matter what, I’ll keep buying her songs and concert tickets.

  20. Stewman
    August 9, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Unlike many younger stars/superstars in music (pop,r&b, country) Taylor Swift is a bonafide superstar that will have career staying power. IN the end, its always about the song, and she does deliver on songs that are above average for sure.
    As for her vocal setbacks, sadly that can be aided and when you get to that level, they will be sure to protect her everystep of the way.
    I’d expect “Better” live performances once we get beaten over the head with her new album in a few months.

  21. Lewis
    August 9, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Don’t forget her version of “You Belong With Me” that she performed at another awards show last year which she sang mainly in syllables and out of breath.

    “Mine” follows that same path with the “oh oh oh oh’s” at the beginning and trying to keep up from there.

  22. Benny
    August 9, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Her songs are starting to sound more and more alike – I’m not a Swift hater and think she has done some good stuff on the first two albums, but this song is kinda disappointing and that’s not even counting the cryptic lyrics..

  23. Alan
    August 9, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    This is actually one of Taylor Swift’s better efforts, both in songwriting and vocal delivery. I’ve given most of her songs a big thumbs down up until this point, but I give this one a thumbs up. The 9513 missed the boat on this one.

  24. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    How is Taylor Swift not pricessy?

  25. Dan E
    August 9, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    This is another great song from Taylor. This should be a massive first single from her. She sounds good, looks good, and has a wonderful writing talent. I love the line, “You made a rebel of a careless man’s careful daughter.” I also love the ending part where her voice feels like an echo to the main part of the song. She is excellent at what she does and she looks like she’ll have another promising year ahead of her.

  26. gloria
    August 9, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Everyone is raving about that one line in the song and that’s suppose to make it a great song??? I guess my hearing must be off because as I said her vocals are terrible to me. I can’t believe some of you think they are good. Sounds just like her last couple of releases.

  27. Dan E
    August 9, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Gloria: Yes, that line is one of the factors that makes it a great song. Also, her vocals on the song are just fine.

  28. Noeller
    August 9, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    I’m really and truly stunned at people on here saying that “…she sounds good…” ????? Honest to goodness people — listen to it again. How do the gargling, screechy vocals not jump out and slap you in the face???

    The biggest superstar in the game with the most amount of money at her disposal, and that’s the best they can do to fix her vocal??? How bad is she “in real life” ????

  29. Kate
    August 9, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    I’m prefacing this review by saying I’m an 18 year old country music fan and have been one for about ten years. And I’m not a Go Carrie, go Rascal Flatts fan either. I’ve loved Miranda Lambert for years and I really do enjoy real country music. Four years ago I stumbled upon a girl named Taylor Swift when I was Myspace music stalking. I waited for the single to come out and finally the album. But since then, my love for her has greatly plummeted. All of these people who are writing rave reviews for the song need to just listen to it again. I’m not saying she can’t write catchy songs because she actually does. It’s just that in a lot of her songs the lyrics are bland (many have some great one liners, but then are never followed up on- this song is a perfect example of that) and then she just kills the song when she sings them. It just angers me with the fact that nowadays everyone is saying things like, “I love country music, Taylor is like, Awesome!” She is giving the public the wrong idea of country music. Taylor swift sings pop music with an occasional banjo thrown in. For a country music blog, this sight perfectly reviewed the single.

  30. Dan E
    August 9, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Noeller: Your description of her makes no sense to me. You might want to take another listen yourself. You’ve just labeled her the ‘biggest superstar in the game’. If that’s true, she surely must be doing something right!

  31. Dr. No
    August 9, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    Dan E: You said the following:

    “…I love the line, “You made a rebel of a careless man’s careful daughter.”

    What is your interpretation of this line? Why is her dad careless and why is she careful and a rebel?

  32. Fizz
    August 9, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Andrea basically summed it up: it’s kiddie music. Which is fine. I’m not part of the target audience, and I fully realize it. But let’s call it what it is: music for teens, tweens and their moms. Taylor Swift better grow up fast, or she’s going to get stuck in this rut and, like so many other teen stars, her career will be over long before she hits the big three-oh.

  33. Dan E
    August 9, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Dr. No: I’ve noticed on here that some people wished she would have explained that line more. Since the song isn’t about her dad, that would have strayed from the real focus of the song.

    Anyway, I find it’s better sometimes when the artist gives its listeners the ability to think a little for themselves instead of them force-feeding every little detail to us.

    In answer to your question, my interpretation of that line would be that possibly her father divorced while she was younger. Taylor, being the daughter, was always careful with the people she dated throughout high school and such. This one particular guy in college though is spinning her world around and she’s throwing all caution to the wind and is just going for it, therefore causing her to be turned into a rebel.

  34. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    So dating one guy when you are in your 20’s is “rebellious?” Man, I am glad Taylor didn’t know my friends and I back when we were in college.

  35. Jon
    August 9, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    To me that particular line is just self-indulgent. I could hear Swift saying “Look, look how genius I am! “rebel of a careless man’s careful daughter” Only me can come up with that line! Awesome!” It really doesn’t contribute anything to the song, other than it’s noticeable word play.

  36. Dan E
    August 9, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Swift doesn’t strike me as self-indulgent in any way. The line is a perfect fit to the song.

  37. Dr. No
    August 9, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    It’s ok Dan E., you can admit it. You’re really Scott Borchetta, aren’t you?

  38. Dan E
    August 9, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Dr. No: You asked me a question, I answered it. Why the rude comment?

  39. Troy
    August 9, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    @stormy or the rebellious part could be about her first time. Which would certainly be rebellious for Taylor Swift. Not everything needs to be spelled o u t she not britney spears.

    And to the point about her father its clear that something went wrong with her parents with lines like he says will never make my parents mistakes. If she went out the way more about the careless man the song wouldn’t be about her and the guy it would be about her parents mistakes.

  40. Jon
    August 9, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    I don’t see what’s self-indulgent about that line. It’s nicely turned (and its meaning is clear enough), but it’s not being asked to do any more work than it can. Nor do I hear anything exceptionable in the singing. All in all, I think it’s a pretty good record. Oh, and Stormy, that you consider the relationship described in the song to be adequately summed up by the word “dating” says a lot.

  41. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    But rebellion should be rebellious.

    Jon: The overwrought, melodramtic nature of the relationship is still not “rebellious” unless we are in 1950 and she was dating James Dean.

  42. Barry Mazor
    August 9, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    I suspect that the problem with “careless man’s careful daughter,” is that it isn’t said casually enough, in passing! It’s clever enough to jump out and be a subject here, and not every writer could have come up with that–but not clever enough, or, as people are suggesting, worked into the specifics of the song’s story enough– to stand up to being returned to in the chorus, as if it’s central and demands being repeated.

  43. Jacob Williams
    August 9, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Well, if I had to choose between:

    Taylor Swift – Mine
    Toby Keith – Trailherhood
    Reba – Turn On The Radio
    Carrie Underwoood – Undo It

    I’d just turn off Country Radio. What the heck is up with all these crud songs from great country singers? I had big hopes for Taylor….she needs a good follow up for Speak Now to have good sales

  44. Leeann
    August 9, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    I think Barry hit the nail on the head.

  45. Leeann
    August 9, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    And her do sound especially bad to me on this song, even worse than usual.

  46. Leeann
    August 9, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Sorry, insert “vocals.”

  47. karen
    August 9, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    well in the age of hip/hop and again rap, and techno dance with ? lyrics this is a good influence on kids… I’m sure the rebellious teen is essential for girls to relate to, since most teens are horrible, rebellious brats..and won’t touch anything that screams ‘good girl song’ lol!!! kidding..

    I think the Taylor express train is in full throttle for now, not stopping anytime soon.. I don’t see her going anywhere.. She’s got another 15 minutes or more I think. I think she needs another ‘love story’ though.. sorry folks..

  48. Jacob Williams
    August 9, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    Not sure about Love Story, while it might be her biggest hit….White Horse was some of her best vocals and writing.

  49. numberonecountryfan
    August 9, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Chart-wise, Taylor Swift’s biggest hit is her first #1, Our Song. It spent six weeks at #1 in 2007.

  50. Fizz
    August 9, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    “Careless man’s careful daughter” is jutsd a reference to the oh-so-dramatic teen-girl topic of daddy issues. We’re supposed to feel sorry for her.

  51. klark
    August 9, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    A phrase to describe this song:
    hairsplittingly disappointing

  52. Dan E
    August 9, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Jacob: Her name alone will give her great sales. “Mine” is already set to debut on the Hot 100 in the top 3 somewhere.

  53. Jon
    August 9, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Swift doesn’t strike me as self-indulgent in any way.

    She strikes me as self-indulgent in EVERY way. “oooh, poor widdle me. joe jonas broke my heart! i’ll write a song about it and let the whole world know it’s about him and what a jerk he is!”

    “Boys, don’t mess with me, or I’ll write a song about you!”

    And don’t get me started with the hair-flipping at EVERY chance she gets.

    The old Swift strikes me as genuine, the new one does not. That line doesnt seem to come from the old Swift, it’s there to show off.

  54. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    I suspect that the problem with “careless man’s careful daughter,” is that it isn’t said casually enough, in passing! It’s clever enough to jump out and be a subject here, and not every writer could have come up with that–but not clever enough, or, as people are suggesting, worked into the specifics of the song’s story enough– to stand up to being returned to in the chorus, as if it’s central and demands being repeated.

    Also, there is a sense that the father/daughter relationship could make for a much more interesting song ala X-tina’s Hurt.

    well in the age of hip/hop and again rap, and techno dance with ? lyrics this is a good influence on kids…
    Airplanes, part two has a pretty good message. And I suspect that Taylor’s fans may soon wish she would take a page from Not Afraid:
    And to the fans, I’ll never let you down again, I’m back
    I promise to never go back on that promise, in fact
    Let’s be honest, that last Relapse CD was “ehhhh”
    Perhaps I ran them accents into the ground

  55. Michelle
    August 9, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    i completely agree with what jon said! and i don’t think this song is good at all!

  56. karen
    August 9, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    well i think eminem’s “not afraid” is probably a winner for sure.. do u really think it’s a positive influence, it’s a bit angry.. but there’s no question that the song will reach out and grab people for sure. It grabbed me.. but I don’t think, it’s a positive thing…but do u honestly think that lyrics like

    What you think, I’m doing this for me, so fuck the world
    Feed it beans, it’s gassed up, if a thing’s stopping me
    I’mma be what I set out to be, without a doubt undoubtedly
    And all those who look down on me I’m tearing down your balcony
    No if ands or buts don’t try to ask him why or how can he
    From Infinite down to the last Relapse album he’s still shit’n
    Whether he’s on salary, paid hourly
    Until he bows out or he shit’s his bowels out of him
    Whichever comes first, for better or worse
    He’s married to the game, like a fuck you for christmas
    His gift is a curse, forget the earth he’s got the urge
    To pull his dick from the dirt and fuck the universe

    TO ME THIS IS SOMEONE WHO IS CLEVERLY USING WORDS OR FOWL WORDS AS METAPHORS, THAT MOST KIDS AREN’T GOING TO GET PERIOD! I think he’s a great lyricist.. but would I want my kid listening.. hmmm, NO!

    it works though from a commercial point of view.. plenty of attitude and guts.. plenty of great rhythm.. I can see his appeal.. but com’on, you are in denial if you say he’s a positive influence.

    I have a 21 year old niece, a 19 year old niece, a 17 year old niece, an 18 year old nephew.. hello,… they all say, esp the girls that some of the music today has influenced. That boys they know sleep with multiple girls b/c of the hip/hop rap influence.. it’s called creepin, and another word for it I won’t mention.. I’ll leave it there..

    Each to their own.. I don’t hate on rap, in fact I think it sounds good.. and so does hip/hop.. but the lyrics.. I cringe at times.. sorry..

  57. Rick
    August 9, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    There is a seventeen year old gal down under that is trying her best to sound like Taylor at times, but this gal at least has a nice voice and can really handle pop country. Her name is Stephanie Brownlee and she has even gone so far as to offer both country and pop remix versions of the song “Goodfriend / Girlfriend”. Covering songs from both Miley Cyrus and Sarah Buxton shows a lack of clear artistic direction, but at least the gal can sing!

    http://www.stephaniebrownlee.com.au/

    Taylor should consider hiring this gal to do vocals on her album cuts and then just lip synch at her concerts…

    PS – As for all this controversy about the lyric “carless man’s careful daughter”, I mean who really gives a sh*t?

  58. Carli
    August 9, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    woow you people are rude. If you dont like her dont listen to her! Its not that hard. Taylor Swift should be patted on the back for all the amazing work she has done. Its not every day a 16 year old girl gets to live her dream. I would know im 16 and would love to grow up to be a singer. Singing is a passion and it doesnt matter if your good or not, what matters is the fact that your doing what you love and you live to do it. I understand everyone has the right to an opinon but if your opinion isnt a nice one than keep it to yourself.Shes an amazing singer and a very strong woman, her new single is a great song and you people just need to except her. if it bothers you that much than dont listen to her.

  59. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Why is it wrong for teenagers to listen to something that might be angry? I would certainly rather have my 10-year-old listen to well crafted lyrics that will inspire her to think like Eminem’s than Taylor’s Boys/Boys/Boys/Princess/Boys crap. Fortunately, my neice’s favorite songs so far have been AC/DC’s Thunderstruck, Tennessee Ernie Ford’s Goober Peas, Nickle Creek’s The Fox’s Tale, Pink Floyd’s Comfortable Numb, KD Lang’s The Dreams of the Everyday Housewife and recently she stole the copy of The Cranberries’ No Need to Argue that my mom stole from me (sweet vengence!)and is digging on Zombie. I’m not seeing a big Taylor Swift fan in the future.

    I look back to when I was a kid and the stuff I listened to–Della and the Dealer, Blood Red and Going Down, Last Night I Went To Bed At 2 with a 10–there wasn’t as much concern about corrupting us with music. Honestly, Children of the 80’s, did listening to Talking Heads’ Psycho Killer and Samantha Fox’s Touch Me affect us that much?

  60. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Its not that hard. Taylor Swift should be patted on the back for all the amazing work she has done. Its not every day a 16 year old girl gets to live her dream.

    What 16 year old girl?

    Singing is a passion and it doesnt matter if your good or not

    Yes it does. THAT is the only thing that should matter.

  61. Carli
    August 9, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    She started when she was 16 and no, talent isnt everything. Just like sports, wining isnt everything, same concept. She does what she loves and thats what matters most. yeah she might be older now but you dont grow out of loving to do something when your a pro at it.

  62. Dan E
    August 9, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Since we’re now comparing Taylor Swift lyrics to Eminem lyrics, Taylor Swift wins hands down!

  63. karen
    August 9, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    stormy, honestly.. do u have a kid? I somehow doubt it

  64. Carli
    August 9, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Karen:
    i Doubt that he has a kid either. im sorry but no ten year old listens to ACDC or Pink Floyd, im 16 and i barely listen or have heard of them

  65. karen
    August 9, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    I look back to when I was a kid and the stuff I listened to–Della and the Dealer, Blood Red and Going Down, Last Night I Went To Bed At 2 with a 10–there wasn’t as much concern about corrupting us with music. Honestly, Children of the 80’s, did listening to Talking Heads’ Psycho Killer and Samantha Fox’s Touch Me affect us that much?

    and you’re ? eccentric?? you’re certainly not a follower!… newsflash!

    most kids are followers.. maybe not your genius 10 year old, but most kids are… so there..

    I know kids.. OK! and most are influenced.. and most DO NOT ANALYZE LYRICS LIKE POETRY.. I wish! i have a niece who can’t pass her GED ok!

    so don’t go there with your rhetoric crap! They listen, they don’t think.. they follow.. why do you think ads work so well, ok~!

    quit dissing Taylor Swift… there needs to be some kind of balance. She’s a part of that!

    Does she deserves every award ever created.. NO! but she has a purpose..

    There are lots of young people that like her songs.. leave it alone!

  66. Carli
    August 9, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Karen:
    you took the words RIGHT out of my mouth(: thank you!!

  67. karen
    August 9, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    You’re welcome.. I’m not spoiling for a fight.. and I’m not a huge Taylor fan but i can’t deny the appeal of her songs, and the fact that most, if not all of her material, including Carrie Underwood’s is a good example for most of the young people today.. If young people like it, that’s great, why diss on it..

    Sure, she’s not Celine Dion.. or Martina.. but she is a great role model..

    that’s rare..

  68. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    How is she a great role model?

  69. Jon
    August 9, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    @Barry That may be the problem with the line for you, and maybe for LeeAnn, too, but it’s not the problem for the guy who demanded that the line be explained to him; it’s not the problem for Stormy or Fizz, who just wish that Swift had written a different song about a different topic (presumably something about sticking it to Da Man),, and it’s not a problem at all for me; I think it works fine, even in the chorus, even repeated. In any event, as you can see, discussion of songs here tends to follow some pretty well-worn lines, most (if not all) of which aren’t really very interesting; trying to have a reasonable discussion in the middle of all of the other stuff is a pretty tough job.

  70. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Karen: My point is that kids have been listening to stuff that Tipper Gore would like to ban for decades, and so far the world hasn’t ended.

  71. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Stormy or Fizz, who just wish that Swift had written a different song about a different topic (presumably something about sticking it to Da Man),,

    Actually, I would have liked her to write the song that line belonged in.

  72. Jon
    August 9, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    How is she a great role model? Well, she not only succeeded in creating music that speaks to millions – which is a considerable achievement – but she insisted on doing it her own way, even when that made the job more difficult. It’s why a lot of creative folks admire her even when they don’t care for the music that much.

  73. Jon
    August 9, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    @Stormy Why would anyone think that you know anything about what song that line “belonged in?” That’s the kind of comment that crosses the line between criticism of what an artist has made to a recommendation for what an artist “ought” to have made – and once that line is crossed, the creative abilities of the person making the recommendation are fair game for consideration. What are yours?

  74. karen
    August 9, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    I’m NOT Tipper Gore.. I’m not banishing anything.. I think there needs to be a balance and let the kids decide.. ok! I’m not saying that any artist’s material needs to stop.. that’s what I’m advocating for… let it be.. and let it balance. there are lots of kids who like Taylor, or like Carrie or whomever, and to me they’re a positive influence.. don’t get me started on the other end of the spectrum.. not that I’m hateful toward it, I’m not.. in fact I’ve listened to it my self, but I’m old enough and smart enough ( I hope) to not be ruled by it.. if you think for a second that others aren’t, you’re mistaken. Each to their own, I say.. let them.. but why diss on some, that are obviously positive.. I think overall, it’s a great thing.

  75. Troy
    August 9, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    @Stormy you pointed out christina aguilera song hurt but in that song it nevers says what her father did lines like “forgive all your mistakes” never says what mistakes he did so isn’t that a problem for you in the song. Or does that just for taylor line carless man careful daughter.

    and i would totally want one of my kids if i had one to go around if it was a guy saying and “if she ever tries to f@@kin leave im a tie her to bed a light this house on fire or a girl to say “just gonna stand there and hear me cry thats alright i love the way you lie.

  76. Leeann
    August 9, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    Even though Swift’s music isn’t really for me, I’d be happy to have my kids see her as a role model. I still can’t qquit her; she’s delightful.

  77. Stormy
    August 9, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    Troy:
    That’s because Hurt is about her letting go of the idea of her father as being perfect and accepting him for who he was. She is offering him forgiveness because she is asking for it, remember “I’m sorry for blaming you for everything I just couldn’t do.”
    Love the Way You Lie is about the cycle of an abusive relationship. You have to remember, the whole song he is rapping about how broken he is and how messed up the relationship is. Rihanna’s part is about the broken parts of the female partner that keep her stuck in the relationship. Eminem has always assumed that his audience would be smart enough to understand when his characters are not role models. Stan sold millions of copies worldwide, and none of those fans have emmulated it.

    HOW is Taylor a role model again? I really don’t want my neice to think her entire world should revolve around boys. Or thinking that clothes make up her personality. She has a birthday coming up–I wonder if I can find a copy of Ani DeFranco’s Not A Pretty Girl.

  78. Troy
    August 9, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    @Stormy shouldn’t you know what she is forgiving him for. or is that not important while knowing why the father was careless is. I think that a bigger part of info in christina song that missing than in taylors.

    and the eminem Do you remeber his song toy soldiers (one of his best song imo) but he sang other song and other rappers that have led to deaths of rapper and freinds of the rapper. If its lyrics are working on the rapper what makes you think it doesn’t happend with people listening to these songs. The song doesn’t in a way that the relationship is a negative thing it promotes it. Stan isn’t promting that fans kill themselves. at one point emienem says that he needs counclsing. he not replying to stan by saying that alright i love the way killed yourself. he is saying that its wrong but LTWYL is supporting it saying its okay if you beat a women its alright she likes it.

    and finally about how taylor is role model fifteen basically is saying how its not all about boys or tied together with a smile about a freind with anorexia. She also a rolemodel because she controls her carear. She writes her own song of how she feels. If someone can control what they do completly and be very succesful at it why wouldn’t that be a good role model?

  79. Rick
    August 9, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    If anyone thinks Taylor is losing any attractiveness to Top 40 Airhead Country Radio, guess again! Mediabase has 128 “reporting” mainstream country stations and here are the only songs to be added to the current playlists of 10 or more stations last week:

    The Mediabase Most-Added Songs This Last Week:
    1.) Taylor Swift/Mine (106 Station Adds)
    2.) Brad Paisley/Anything Like Me (45)
    3.) Rascal Flatts/Why Wait (39)
    4.) Jason Aldean/My Kinda Party (30)
    5.) Sugarland/Stuck Like Glue (23)
    6.) Josh Kelley/George Clay (15)
    7.) Miranda Lambert/Only Prettier (12)

    That’s just totally freakin’ awesome…

  80. Troy
    August 9, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    sorry for the double post but not a pretty girls is horrible song. I feel like even disney has a better idea how to do this type of song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So_DCoIU9pk&a=GxdCwVVULXd_3XsdCdPLyl_OMC9XqVHz. Could it be possiable for the girl to be both pretty and be able to take care of her self? What an idea!

  81. mags
    August 9, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    I like her at first, but her success has gone to her head, whether you want to admit it or not. I’m sure she’s still a nice girl off stage but her performance has become WAY to self indulgent.

    At a Brooks and Dunn tribute that was taped months back and aired recently she dance all over the stage and flipped her hair like all her fans were there to see her. Very disrespectful to two men who have been in the business as long as B&D on their big night. On the show’s final number, all the preformers were brought back on stage. Keith Urban and Brad Pasiley stayed in the background and “played” their guitars while Taylor hopped and skipped from one end of the end to the other “strumming” that sparkly guitar of hers. She even danced (and I use that term loosely) right up to the camera several times. I had to laugh when Keith accidentally whacked her in the head with his guitar because he didn’t see her coming his way. Also, I still throw up in my mouth a little bit when I see her Crossroads with Def Leppard and the way acted around those “old” men.

  82. mags
    August 9, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    “old” to her, anyway. and I’m sure it was done innocently, but it didn’t look good.

  83. Illiana
    August 10, 2010 at 12:07 am

    THIS IS THE SAME FREAKING SONG, JUST A DIFFERENT TITLE! Get out of the industry, Taylor Swift! You’re getting old FAST.

    And usually Big Machine can mix her voice enough to make it sound SOMEWHAT presentable on records, but this vocal is completely horrendous. Did they just let her sing into the microphone? That’s what it sounds like; trash.

    “Speak Now” will BOMB. It won’t reach anywhere near the same success “Fearless” did, and she’s going downhill. Swift hit her peak on January 31, 2010 when she won the Grammy for Album of the Year. She’s down-right horrible, and it’s about time someone took her off of this damn golden pedestal that she’s relaxing on. This girl is falling fast, and “Speak Now” won’t sell anything more than 2-2.5 million, which will be a disappointment from her past 2 albums.

    SCREW YOU SWIFT AND SWIFT FANS! AHHHH I can’t stand this girl anymore!

  84. Dan E
    August 10, 2010 at 12:42 am

    Illiana: It’s funny seeing you get so worked up over one person. I find this song new and fresh. Sorry to say, this girl is not “falling fast”. She most definitely is still climbing her mountain. Rumors are floating around the Internet that buzz is so high for the “Speak Now” album that it could possibly sell over a million copies in the first week. There’s a good chance that won’t happen, but in no possible way will this BOMB, as you’re so desperately hoping for.

    Have a good night!

  85. Julie
    August 10, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Though I don’t quite understand the Swift animosity some people seem to have, this song is definitely below average, and I find it hard to grasp that it is considered “country” in the slightest. At least her old pop stuff (because yes, she’s always been pop) had a banjo or dobro every now and then.

    The “careless man’s careful daughter” line is pleasing to the ear, but is not explained far enough as has been pointed out here. I do agree that the song would be stronger if she had used that as the hook as opposed to following it up with the mediocre “you are the best thing that’s ever been mine.”

    Of course her vocals are weak, but anyone expecting something more from Swift clearly hasn’t been paying much attention.

    I also find her “mature” lyrics to come off a bit desperate. I can just see her sitting down to write this thinking, “I have to write a mature song so people will take me seriously! No more fairytales!” And yet, it sounds like something off the Disney channel. Whether she mentions bills to pay or Romeo, she will always cater to the tweens of the world.

    If this is the best we can expect off of Swift’s 3rd effort, I do believe she’s in trouble. Contrary to popular belief, no one is invincible in this business. One can only be unexceptional with exceptional ramifications for so long.

  86. Lily
    August 10, 2010 at 2:18 am

    T.S. doesn’t mature and this is the big problem she is facing (more so than her voice). You have to live and make experiences for that. Tayler lives on a Tourbus going to parties shopping for sparkly things and condos (I don’t critique enjoying the money you earn, I would too). But this is not real life for almost everyone but a few. The kids that listen to her now will very shortly be faced with the reality of getting through college, financing university, finding a job, making ends meet and realizing that they are not going to be the next Taylor Swift. There will be very different challenges in relationships than Swift sings about. And quite some of these kids will actually start resenting fairytale songs because life isn’t like this for them. A 25+ year old Tayler Swift who still sings about boy/girl/prince/princess is simply absurd. But what else would she write about living in her bubble?

  87. Stormy
    August 10, 2010 at 7:50 am

    @Stormy shouldn’t you know what she is forgiving him for. or is that not important while knowing why the father was careless is. I think that a bigger part of info in christina song that missing than in taylors

    No, because the song isn’t about him, its about her.

    he is saying that its wrong but LTWYL is supporting it saying its okay if you beat a women its alright she likes it.
    But that’s only because she is as messed up as he is. Remember, the abuse in LTWYL goes both ways. “Maybe that’s what happens when a tornado meets a volcano.” Does that sound healthy?

    he sang other song and other rappers that have led to deaths of rapper and freinds of the rapper. If its lyrics are working on the rapper what makes you think it doesn’t happend with people listening to these songs.

    Know a bit about history before you post such things. Eminem did not come on the scene until long after the East Coast/West Coast thing. The East Coast/West Coast battle was largely a marketing thing, the rivalries were mostly back stage issues and, while it has been blamed for the death of Tupac and Biggie, there is no evidence that it caused the death of either. As for other rappers being shot, there is also no eivdence that is has to do with their music. If you look through the history of music there have been many artists shot, and its not necessarily because of their music.

  88. Dr. No
    August 10, 2010 at 8:09 am

    Troy said:
    and finally about how taylor is role model fifteen basically is saying how its not all about boys or tied together with a smile about a freind with anorexia. She also a rolemodel because she controls her carear. She writes her own song of how she feels. If someone can control what they do completly and be very succesful at it why wouldn’t that be a good role model?

    The real role models are the marketing team at Big Machine Records. Taylor owes her success to them.

  89. Troy
    August 10, 2010 at 8:51 am

    “No, because the song isn’t about him, its about her. ”

    Well this song isn’t about her father its a taylor and one of her relationships. my the part it the song its obvious that the song is going to be about the dad so why would you be thinking it was going to go that way.

    It just happend that two of the biggest rapper were shot. There is no real hard evidence of who killed the two but somebody still did. The whole song toy soldiers was written because another fued looked like it was going to happend with him a ja rule. this lines in rap seem to point that someone had gotten killed by actions that he and other rappers did “I spent too much energy on it, honestly I’m exhausted And I’m so caught in it I almost feel I’m the one who caused it This ain’t what I’m in hip-hop for, it’s not why I got in it That was never my object for someone to get killed.

    @Dr. No I missed Big Machine great marketing team. I was just thinking wow they can take anyone and make them sell millions like steel magnolia, jack ingram, or all the other singer who used to be on big machine but flopped and no longer on there. Marketing team really helped Trisha yearwood get second lowest charting on the country albums of her career. basically every major artist has a markeitng team. Just because the do doesnt take away her accomplishment. Jamey Johnson is being heavily marketed as the anti-top 40 country. Does he ow all his success to his marketing team to?

  90. Stormy
    August 10, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Well this song isn’t about her father its a taylor and one of her relationships. my the part it the song its obvious that the song is going to be about the dad so why would you be thinking it was going to go that way.

    I know. It would have just been a more interesting song were it about her relationship with her dad.

  91. Blake
    August 10, 2010 at 9:23 am

    This is a good song, with good lyrics, a great singer, and a positive message coming from America’s top role model. I’ll leave it at that.

  92. Fizz
    August 10, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Karen: your nieces and nephew who blame their promiscuity on rap lyrics are copping out and you know it, and so do they.

    Taylor Swift is a role model because? She’s a 20-year-old celebrity who isn’t a drug-addled whore famous for her name and not her accomplishments … yet. Big whoop.

    Carli: “It doesn’t matter if you’re good or not.” Yes it does. You’ve got to have something to offer, be it talent or attitude or SOMETHING, or you’re just going to wind up singing passiontaely in the shower, and the room’s going to clear out when you catch sight of the karaoke microphone.

    Jon: there you go again, trying to dictate who is and isn’t qualified to comment on which topics. “That crosses the line between …” the line you drew, totally subjectively. And would I like her to sing something about ‘stickin’ it to da man?” Goddamn right! I’ll take real, honest anger or defiance any day over vapid, feel-good messages.

    But again, i’m not part of Swift’s target demographic. I understand that. But she helps keep my hate-muscle strong.

    I’m turning 30 on Sunday. Whenever I start to brood about it, I can look at Carli’s post and think, “Thank God!”

  93. Dr. No
    August 10, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Troy said:
    @Dr. No I missed Big Machine great marketing team. I was just thinking wow they can take anyone and make them sell millions like steel magnolia, jack ingram, or all the other singer who used to be on big machine but flopped and no longer on there. Marketing team really helped Trisha yearwood get second lowest charting on the country albums of her career. basically every major artist has a markeitng team. Just because the do doesnt take away her accomplishment. Jamey Johnson is being heavily marketed as the anti-top 40 country. Does he ow all his success to his marketing team to?

    Well, when 85% of marketing goes into your “cash cow” (in this case, Taylor), shouldn’t you expect the sales of the remaining roster to suffer?

    There are plenty of books out there about the ugly realities of the mainstream music business. Sounds like you need to start reading them.

  94. highwayman3
    August 10, 2010 at 10:02 am

    When I first caught this song, The one thing worse then hearing it was I couldnt help but picturing her do it live and it wasn’t just the singing, its a given it will be awful, but her stage antics, I could see the parts of the song that would make her twirl and shake her hair. This is the kind of song that I hoped she would make, take the one thing that made her famous and beat it in the ground, thats the quickest way to kill her career, only thing is, unlike Gretchen Wilson, it’s actually prolonging it, damn!

    Her biggest talent has nothing to do with her musical career in my opinion, sounding awful, and rhyming words with the same theme over and over again isnt that genious. It’s her marketing ability. Holding a web chat directly to her fans to announce her next album, that’s genious. Overrated best describes her career thus far.

  95. Jon
    August 10, 2010 at 10:20 am

    @Dr. No And every one of those books that’s any good makes clear that one of the “ugly realities of the mainstream music business” is that marketing expenditures are no guarantee of success, especially over years. Maybe you ought to take your own advice.

  96. Dan E
    August 10, 2010 at 10:22 am

    Many here are posting the argument that she’s singing the same type of song so her musical career will basically just die soon enough.

    Well, if that’s the case, wouldn’t there at least be a hint of declining since it’s been over half a decade thus far. It seems to me that she continues to increase. Who knows, maybe after a full decade she’ll start to decline.

    But then again, another argument is that her music is only for the tweens and little kiddies. That’s right: so everyone who grows up will just outright discard her. I mean, that’s logical. As people grow up, there is definitely no new batch of kiddies and tweens to replace them, right? Am I correct? Hmmm…

  97. Stormy
    August 10, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Troy:
    It just happend that two of the biggest rapper were shot. There is no real hard evidence of who killed the two but somebody still did.
    Did you know that one of the suspects in Biggies death is Sean Combs. There were definately a lot of back stage mechanisms that went on with the East Coast/West Coast feud, but when it finally gets solved its more likely to be about money than about lyrics.

  98. Thomas
    August 10, 2010 at 10:26 am

    …fair points dan e. care for a bagel?

  99. Fizz
    August 10, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Dan E.: any day now, bud, any day now. The next batch of kiddies will have their own stars The artist and the audience will outgrow each other. Ask Melanie, Leif Garrett, Shaun and David Cassidy, Tiffany, Debbie Gibson, New Kids On The Block, Backstreet Boys and any number of others throughout the decades.

    Exceptions? The Beach Boys grew up and went nuts. Britney Spears still gets way too much press, but it’s for being a public trainwreck, and what sales she does have anymore, I suspect, ar ebased more on that factor than on the music. Justin Timberlake? Okay, if you want. The point is, once you’re pigeonholed as a teen or kiddie artist, oftentimes you’re stuck. Sure, she’ll probably probably keep making music, and probably won’t be going hungry, but by and large, the audience she has now won’t be there.

  100. Dan E
    August 10, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Fizz: I agree with you that, yes, there will come a point when this will happen in the future. But, do you really expect it to be any day now? Come on, she’s not fading fast and you know it. She still has plenty of life in her and will be making music that sells extremely well for many years to come.

  101. Fizz
    August 10, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Maybe not tomorrow or next week, but soon. And I don’t think her music will sell “extremely well” in the future, either. it’s tough for ANYBODY to sell “extremely well.” Throw in the whole teen-artist angle we just talked about, and it’s only going to be more difficult. I give her five more years at the outside. My guess is that she’ll find other ways to stay busy outside of music.

  102. robin
    August 10, 2010 at 11:21 am

    I think Moms should listen carefully to the lyrics to TS songs and ask themselves if they want their daughters to have a role model that does not go to college, puts their whole life in the hands of young men and can’t carry a tune.

  103. Jon
    August 10, 2010 at 11:23 am

    I give her five more years at the outside.

    You do know that people just like you were saying the same thing almost five years ago, right?

  104. Fizz
    August 10, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Absolutely, Jon. That’s why I think it’ll probably be sooner rather than later. The fickle nature of the teenage girl will triumph in the end.

  105. Fizz
    August 10, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Robin, I really don’t put that much stuck in anybody’s lyrics to influence kids to any great degree. It’s all about character. The Taylor Swift fans who don’t go to college and whose boy obsessions net them a couple babies and a minimum-wage job? They were headed that way anyway, and Taylor Swift singing about making the dean’s list wouldn’t change a thing.

  106. Fizz
    August 10, 2010 at 11:47 am

    “Stock” is what I meant, of course. But basically, she just sings what the audience wants to hear.

  107. Troy
    August 10, 2010 at 11:51 am

    @Dr. No but she didn’t start as a superstar she started when she was no bigger than other acts on Big Machine roster.

    @Stormy I did know sean combs was a suspect but the have came out with any hard evidence on anybody. I do know quite a bit about rap even though im not a hugh fan of it. And the father daughter experince wouldn’t work. Taylor has a good relationship with her father so to sing about a relationship like hurt wouldn’t work there wouldn’t be emotion. For christina she had experince with a tough father daughter relationship and can sing with emotion.

  108. Jon
    August 10, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    @Fizz How do you know what Taylor Swift’s audience wants to hear?

  109. Stormy
    August 10, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Taylor has a good relationship with her father so to sing about a relationship like hurt wouldn’t work there wouldn’t be emotion. For christina she had experince with a tough father daughter relationship and can sing with emotion.

    So why is she the careful daughter of a careless man and how is she rebelling against him by having a stable, monogomous relationship with a guy?

  110. Stormy
    August 10, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Jon
    August 10, 2010 at 12:01 pm Permalink @Fizz How do you know what Taylor Swift’s audience wants to hear?

    Well, for starters, Fox aired two hours of it last night.

  111. Brady Vercher
    August 10, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    As far as “careless man’s careful daughter,” I think it works well within the song; it essentially expresses both her distrust of men and lack of faith in love and the root of those feelings. It’s further fleshed out by “love never lasts” line in the first verse and “parents’ mistake” line in the second verse. Although, it is a bit awkward when the boyfriend repeats it.

    The rebel bit of that line is what actually irks me because it completely lacks context. We’ve seen Swift settle for the same kind of nonsensical imagery when she used the Scarlet Letter in “Love Story,” so it’s not something new.

    Otherwise, the song treads familiar water and just comes across as a little juvenile and one-dimensional to me.

  112. Jon
    August 10, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Taylor has a good relationship with her father so to sing about a relationship like hurt wouldn’t work there wouldn’t be emotion.

    *facepalm*

  113. Stormy
    August 10, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Jon: To be fair, asking Taylor to match the emotional level of Christina Aguleria is a bit like asking Jack Black to match the basketball level of LeBron James.

  114. Fizz
    August 10, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    “How do you know what Taylor’s audience wants to hear?”

    *facepalm* COME ON, MAN!

  115. Troy
    August 10, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    @Fizz would you consider selling about million album a doing pretty succesful world tour succesful because the backstreet boys just did that. They may not be in forefront of music industry part i would still consider them to be doing fairly succesful. Or you could look at Kylie Mingoue who just had a number one album in uk. Or maybe Emma Bunton or Mel C from the spice girls that had critcal succesful and good sales wise success or spice girls in genreal who had a massive reunion tour tour. Or take that, westlife, Robbie Williams. Jesse Mccarthney who co wrote the tenth best selling digital song and has a few hits. Rochelle Wiseman/Frankie Sandford. Beyonce another one thats still coming out with hits. The beatles started off appealing mainly to teenage girls. Christina Aguilera was able to make the transfer from teen singer to adult singer she struggling now but she had success after teen years as well. Maybe a little research is needed first before saying that basically all acts that get sales from teens will fade away.

    Who are the acts that didn’t start as teens that are still selling well

  116. Fizz
    August 10, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Sure, Beyonce, forgot her. The Beatles … eh, to me, even the early stuff, they were more than just a teenybopper ac, and either way, they’d be perhaps the biggest exception. A lot of the others you name have gone through long periods of either inactivity, struggling sales or other creative endeavors. A reunion or coeback tour is all about nostalgia, so I don’t think it’s a good barometer of an artist’s true staying power. As for the likes of Robbie Williams and the Spice Girls? Maybe in Britain, where they were originally popular, but not in the States.

    Artists fail all the time, for a hundred different reasons. But what we’re talking about here is the brief shelf life that teen acts are prone to.

  117. Dr. No
    August 10, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Jon said:

    @Dr. No And every one of those books that’s any good makes clear that one of the “ugly realities of the mainstream music business” is that marketing expenditures are no guarantee of success, especially over years. Maybe you ought to take your own advice.

    When your target audience (niche) is working monetarily for you and your product, which product is going to get the most money pumped into them for marketing if you have multiple products?

  118. Ben Foster
    August 10, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    I’ve never been Taylor’s harshest critic by any means, and I’ve even liked most of her singles, but I am not on board with this one. She has a bit of a weak voice, but she can make it work when she sings melodies that bring out her strengths. This tune is just not right for her voice, and she sounds downright screechy and annoying. Besides that, the production was too much.

  119. Cardsgal
    August 10, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Taylor IS a very positive role model. If you’ve watched her at all, let alone met her, you know that she behaves like a lady (instead of a tramp — I’m looking at you, MILEY)and is gracious, intelligent, and generous with her time and money. She was blessed with good looks and talent, but hasn’t let them go to her head (and I hope she never does). It’s hard not to root for her.

  120. Dan E
    August 10, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    I agree Cardsgal, Taylor is definitly a good role model.

  121. Troy
    August 10, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    @Stormy to be fair christina and taylor both have done emotional songs very well, hurt and whether you like it or not white horse does show a lot of emotion. Just like if Christina did songs that Taylor wrote there wouldn’t be the same emotion. Christina uses the emotion from her dad abusing her and her mother. If christina didn’t have this happen to her hurt wouldnt have the same emotion level to it.

    “So why is she the careful daughter of a careless man and how is she rebelling against him by having a stable, monogomous relationship with a guy?”

    Well this my take of the line in the song. There can be more than one way to think about it radical idea i know. careless father made mistakes in his love life maybe the father cheated on her mom or the other way around. The rebelling isn’t her rebelling on her parents the rebelling is on her own of idea of trusting a guy. I can picture her saying how she would never trust a guy because of what happend to her parents. So she te be careful avoiding men because of her careless father and she rebelling against being careful or being gaurded.

    @Jon I was saying the premise of father daughter relationship as the main point wouldn’t work with taylor. Her writing is about her experinces of cousre she can add minor details that aren’t the same as her life but to have the whole idea be something that she didn’t experince wouldn’t be a Taylor Swift song.

  122. Troy
    August 10, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    @Fizz but thats where their main popularity came from so yes if they are still doing well in Uk that is still succesful. Just like Taylor populairty might fall in Europe but in America i think she always be able to sell well. Kylie start at 19 and has had a top 5 in four different decades. And it still an accomplishment that spice girls after around eight years of not making any new music you get still sell out a 250,000 tickets at stadium in one city on a tour.

  123. Fizz
    August 10, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Like I said, Troy, it’s nostalgia and has nothing to do with an artist’s continued viability. You have to go through a decade of not doing squat to get there. Now what’re they going to do? You can’t go back in time. They’re going to wind up being 40 and feeling ridiculous singing those songs.

  124. Stormy
    August 10, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Troy: No, if X-tina did a Taylor song there would be nuanced emotion and strinkly in tune vocals. That would be weird.

    Its equally likely that Taylor has as much of a clue about being rebellious as she does about the plots of classic Lit. Judging from this song, if, in 20 years Taylor hears Against Me ask “Do you remember when you were young and you wanted to set the world on fire?” she will say “huh?”

  125. Stormy
    August 10, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Sorry, that should be “strikingly”

  126. Paul
    August 10, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    “Fearless” with slightly new words.

  127. K
    August 10, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    It took me a few carful listens to form my opinion of this song, but I’ve come to the personal conclusion that “Mine” falls considerably short of the incredibly high bar Taylor has chosen to set for herself.

    The lyrics strike me as strings of cliches that try too hard to come accross as progressive or improved from Taylor’s past work, when she has shown she is capable of much better.

    The lyrics of “Mine” paint a weak picture, even at the strongest points.

    Compare this song to stroytellers like “Tim McGraw,” “White Horse” and “Fifteen.” They are prime examples of Taylor’s ability to create strong and compelling stories from a simple story.

    Not only do the lyrics showcase how Taylor needs to improve as a writer, but it’s a glaring example of her immaturity and the fact that she is probably not up to the level of talent she is held to.

    There may be no mentions of princesses and fairytales, but Taylor shows that same viewpoint in the last verse of “Mine” when she sings about believing in a sort of artifical, perfect love after her boyfriend decided to forgive her flaws and accept her perfections after one fight. Believe it or not, real relationships are based on happiness, sadness, hurt, elation, and everything in between. Real love doesn’t run on one speed, as Taylor’s music implies.

    The beat, music and everything about the melody is virtually identical to everything else she has written. When you have the talent and resources Taylor does as a young musician, I don’t think there should be any excuse for her to continue in the same holding pattern.

    I’m not a Swift fan, but even I had hope she would give us better than this recycled fluff.

  128. Troy
    August 10, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    @Stormy i would like here a ballad by christina aguilera that has done well for her where she didn’t have to go through vocal hoops to get emotion across. You Lost Me, Hurt, I Turn to you, reflections, beautiful. You Lost Me and White Horse have similar lyrics and Taylor to me has a lot more emotion in it.

    @Fizz “You have to go through a decade of not doing squat to get there” I missed when having 29 top ten between them was doing squat after spice ended.

  129. Stormy
    August 11, 2010 at 7:48 am

    @Stormy i would like here a ballad by christina aguilera that has done well for her where she didn’t have to go through vocal hoops to get emotion across. You Lost Me, Hurt, I Turn to you, reflections, beautiful. You Lost Me and White Horse have similar lyrics and Taylor to me has a lot more emotion in it.

    Taylor can barely handle singing, she is not ready for emotions yet.
    I would like to see Christina avoid all the vocal trappings too, but that’s kind of expecting someone in Germany to own a porche and not take the autoban.

  130. Jon
    August 11, 2010 at 9:06 am

    @Dr. No Your point about where the bulk of Big Machine’s marketing resources go now is irrelevant to your original claim, which was that Swift owes her success to the marketing department. Nice bait & switch.

    @Fizz IYou are a 29 year old dude upset about nearing the big 3-0, with a taste for a tiny sliver of the broad spectrum of country music and a commitment to exercising your hate muscle. When you have no appreciation for or interest in an artist and no sympathy for or affiliation with that artist’s audience, asking where you get your insights about them is an eminently reasonable question.

    Still waiting for an exposition of Stormy’s track record as a songwriter…

  131. Dr. No
    August 11, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Jon,

    Forgive me. I should have stated that Taylor owes her success to a) the marketing department for the constant “in-your-face” promotion and b) her father for the initial investment.

    Better?

  132. Jon
    August 11, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Not really. If “constant ‘in-your-face’ promotion” were all it takes to break a multi-platinum-selling star, everyone would do it and it would always work. Which ain’t the case; iIn fact, campaigns to market artists fail most of the time, which is one of the reasons why the music biz is the way it is.

    I can understand why people don’t like an artist, but I will never understand how people can convince themselves that if others like an artist whom they don’t like themselves, it must be for some other reason than that those people enjoy the artist’s music, nor will I ever understand why they make the effort to convince themselves of something so obviously wrong.

  133. Troy
    August 11, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    @Dr. No “the marketing department for the constant “in-your-face” promotion”

    Heidi Montag album Superficial was highly marketed/promoted and spent over 2 million dollars on the project and the album sold 658 copies the first week.

  134. Dr. No
    August 11, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Troy,

    Because by that time, Heidi Montag was well overexposed on her “reality” show and in every gossip rag on the supermarket magazine rack.

  135. Jon
    August 11, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    @Dr. No. So, what’s the difference between constant, in-your-face promotion and over-exposure? (This ought to be entertaining.)

  136. Troy
    August 11, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    @Dr. No even if she was overexposed if moeny and marketing was the only thing that matter for someone to be succesful she would be selling well but she not. And all you said was that constant in your face promotion which is exaclty what Montag did. There are other that get way more media exposure than Taylor that have sold less in the US. Britney Spears, Lady Gaga, and Beyonce have all been in the news more than Taylor but they haven’t been able to sell close to six million off on album.

  137. Dr. No
    August 11, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Jon/Troy,

    Overexposure can be an end result of constant “in-your-face” promotion, resulting in loss of interest by the masses. Big Machine feared this–how else do you explain her long hiatus from television/magazine interviews/etc. after the Grammys fiasco?

    You have to admit that Taylor has somewhat lost her luster after said performance, which many (including music industry people) consider her “peak.” Cases in point: her digital sales for the past few singles have declined and she hasn’t sniffed #1 on the Country Singles Charts since her last #1 (I can’t remember the name).

  138. Helen
    August 11, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    For those wondering about the line “a careless man’s careful daughter”, I don’t know if its just me, but I thought it was very obvious.
    The song is about a girls tendency to run from love; she views her dad as careless for falling in love, and her being careful as in, guarded and protective of her heart.

  139. Troy
    August 11, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    You Belong with me did well on digital sales and so did Today Was A Fairytale. Fearless did go top ten on digital sales. By the time Fifteen and Fearless came out she had already sold extremely large amount of albums. It common for the worst selling/radio airplay single to be 4 or 5th. Rihanna singles have followed 8, 9, 1, 99, 14.
    Britney Spears last album singles followed 1,3,19, 88. The Saturdays 8, 5, 4, 2, 22. Mostly every artist least succesful singles are the 4/5th one

    And after the grammy she was touring in Austrlia and other parts of the world i think she had some japan tour dates but was doing interview for those coutries and was in the Austrlian Media quite a bit.

  140. Dan E
    August 11, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Well, Dr. No, she’s back to number 1 on digital sales with this song. I guess her luster started racing back towards her.

  141. yoli
    August 11, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Taylor Swift marketing team is the best, I am a Carrie Underwood fan and since the end of April 2010 my local wal mart & surrounding area wal marts have been out of play on cd but the fearless cd is constanly being restocked. They never run out of fearless, I mean I couldnt even find any of carries older cds….so congradulations to Taylor Swifts marketing team GREAT JOB!

  142. Stormy
    August 11, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    That’s her distribution team.

  143. nikki
    August 12, 2010 at 6:27 am

    I really dont know what your talking about, with the ‘thumbs down’ have you noticed how it went
    to #1 straight away. Your article left me wonderign a lot fo things like what awards show..? please dont remark on how taylor swift left you wondering…tahst part of the whole song. In life you dont always get answers.

    taylor swifts songwritting needs polishing…HIS ARTICE NEEDS POLISHING, lol. seriously look at yourself before critizing others….

    oh and the ‘oh oh’ does not sound ANYTHING like hannah montana..that guy needs to get his ears checked!!!!!

  144. nikki
    August 12, 2010 at 6:29 am

    helen
    For those wondering about the line “a careless man’s careful daughter”, I don’t know if its just me, but I thought it was very obvious.
    The song is about a girls tendency to run from love; she views her dad as careless for falling in love, and her being careful as in, guarded and protective of her heart.

    I agree with helen. The point is though taylor likes to keep usguessing she sint going to say in her song. “you made a rebel of a carless mans careful daughter oh and by the way if you dont get what this means…”

  145. Stormy
    August 12, 2010 at 7:53 am

    Taylor also has a history of using words and phrases in ways that don’t always mean what she seems to think they mean. See also her use of Romeo and Juliet.

  146. Juli
    August 12, 2010 at 9:51 am

    Take some time to actually listen to the lyrics.

  147. Juli
    August 12, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Blake—maybe if you think about it and listen to the lyrics, you’d understand..taylor is an amazing singer and musician and a beautiful girl.

  148. Dan E
    August 12, 2010 at 11:13 am

    “Mine” debuts on the Hot 100 at #3!

    another hit single = check

  149. Stormy
    August 12, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Juli: The word rebel just doesn’t work in this song. Believer maybe, but not rebel.

  150. justin
    August 12, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Tweeny bobbers are really going to eat this song up. This is song is a follow up to love story, same screechy lyrics and horrible arrangement of this song. SDo what is debut at #3? tweens tend to overplay an artist, watch everybody is going to be sick of this song in a month. but never fear Taylor swift will be there to release the next pile of trash.I use to b a fan when she released her first album because she was around 16 at the time SO DUH THE LYRICS AND THE SONGS MAKE SENSE! Then came fearless, and there was love story which i liked. After that it was downhill. White horse won country song of the year at the grammys WTF!? Dead flowers by Lambert or Just A Dream by Underwood were way more deserving. Album of the year was a bigger joke, Lady gaga album was a helluva a lot better even i am sasha fierce would have been more deserving. I never put comments up, but im just so sick of her,i needed to vent UGH!!

    PS: This does sound like a song Hannah no talent Montanana would put out(:

  151. Alison
    August 12, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    I think the songs makes total sense. Listen to the lyrics and she sets everything up.

    Her father left her family when she was young and she put up walls, not wanting to get close to people. She doesn’t want to get hurt. But she meets this guy and he makes her want to break her own rules to be with him (hence the rebel).

    Rebellion doesn’t have to be big, sweeping gestures. It can be small things and as such, I think that the word fits perfectly well here.

    In terms of the “careless man’s careful daughter” bit- I have to say, I’ve lived this. My father left my family to do whatever he wanted to do, damn the consequences or how it would affect anyone else. As a result, I became very aware of the choices that I myself made and worked hard to make sure that they were based on reason and logic, not on emotion.

    So, yeah, I get it. I relate to it more than I wish I did. You get burned by someone you love, you become a lot mroe careful about the choices you make. This is not rocket science, guys,

    I think it’s a fun, sweet song that will resonate with a lot of people. It certainly did with me.

  152. Troy
    August 12, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    @Justin “Lady gaga album was a helluva a lot better even i am sasha fierce would have been more deserving”

    Lady Gaga album The Fame was filled with filler. Fearless was a better complete album.

    And I got the same idea from it as you did Alison

  153. Stormy
    August 12, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Rebellion doesn’t have to be big, sweeping gestures. It can be small things and as such, I think that the word fits perfectly well here

    What small things did she do? They didn’t even get matching heart tatoos.

  154. Dan E
    August 12, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Rebelling can simply mean doing something you normally wouldn’t do. We don’t have to be told exactly what that something is within the song. It’s not that hard using your imagination on certain things, especially on a lyrical line such as this.

  155. Illiana
    August 12, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    @Dr. No – Taylor owes her success to Kanye West.

    @Dan E – I’m sorry, but just because you’re a fan doesn’t mean that you can start making up your own rumors. There isn’t a single statement of her selling “over 1 million in the first week”. The album will definitely reach a multi-platinum status, but it won’t be as big as “Fearless”. That album won the Grammy for Album of the Year, and there’s no way she will ever be able to do that with two albums in a row. I can 100% guarantee you that.
    Oh, and the lyrics are the same, and you refuse to admit it. You’re a fan so you will obviously stick up for her through thick and thin, so you can stop trying to explain her lyrical techniques. Nobody will take a biased fan’s word over a professional’s review.

    Her lyrics are the same as the past 2 entire albums, and the vocal has surprisingly gotten worse than before. Sorry, but she will be gone by the end of 2012. She’ll live on with “Speak Now” through next year, but 2012 will be her stopping point. She hit her peak on January 31, 2010.

    Oh, and don’t expect any type of Taylor Swift domination at awards shows. She released virtually-nothing spectacular to get her Grammy nods, American Music Award nods, and CMA nods. She won’t win the CMA Entertainer of the Year award with her past lackluster 6 months. Like I said, she hit her peak on January 31, 2010. Since then, she’s released 2 singles that tanked in sales and charts.

  156. Dan E
    August 12, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Iliana: She was successful before Kanye even entered the picture. (You must have been cat-napping during that period.)

    You do know how to google, right? There are plenty of articles hinting that she might sell over a million copies in its first week. Here’s one example: http://www.billboard.com/features/can-taylor-swift-s-latest-sell-one-million-1004106093.story?tag=prevart#/features/can-taylor-swift-s-latest-sell-one-million-1004106093.story?tag=prevart

    I know you’re not a fan, but you really need to open up your eyes and figure out that she is a star that can’t be brought down easily. 2012 is not that far away, and she should have a lot more hit singles from this cd by then. Your ranting and raving will not change this. She has not peaked yet, and hopefully won’t for quite some time. Only time will tell.

  157. Jon
    August 12, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    One would think that if one were actually able to predict the future with any degree of certainty, one wouldn’t be wasting one’s time posting on blogs like this, would one?

  158. Kingsley
    August 13, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Taylor Swift is a singer, songwriter, acoustic player, talented performer, and a natural for her age including what she’s accomplished. Plus this is America people! When did singing become the only way to be a superstar? It’s only one of the ways. Tired of people who are ridiculously anti prosperity, ranting on someone’s career for their credibility and gains. It’s so typical to see a blog like this up online and this is more of the same for when many rockstars were at it in the 70s or when the folk music world pissed off the supreme courts judges during the Vietnam war or when America decided they wanted more than just singing KISS came along. Most of the comments on here are from grown adults who all listen to Taylor Swift more often than most adults, just so ironic to hear your contradictions. Finally, no one cares if you don’t like Taylor’s music or her voice, I’m sure she’s content with the millions who represent the future of America and country music history. So you don’t have to like it but its happening and there’s nothing you can do to stop it.

    80% of you are not singers, not songwriters, not entertainers and if you’re not a Taylor Swift fan then its likely that you’re a non-consumer of her product as well. Therefore, placing us back at square one of it all that based upon her numbers and improvements I’d say you’re opinions are fully noted but don’t matter when it comes to this music industry. Just saying, it 2010 not 1990. Think about it. Versatility is today’s rockstar along with marketable presence. That’s what matters!

  159. Dr. No
    August 13, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Jon,

    Yourself included.

  160. Jon
    August 13, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Why would you think I might think otherwise?

  161. Omar
    August 13, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Dan E – I agree with Illiana. Sorry, but just because you think that Taylor Swift will remain around for a long time doesn’t mean she will. You’re just a silly fan who is using his biased opinion in an argument.

    Taylor Swift, like Illiana said, hit her peak when she won her Grammy for Album of the Year. Once her name was announced, everyone knew that she will never get to a point as big as that ever again. Sorry, but even fans have to accept the truth.

  162. Dan E
    August 13, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Yo Omar, she is still breaking records.

    Sorry, but just because you think that Taylor Swift will not remain around for a long time doesn’t mean she won’t. You’re just a silly non-fan who is using his biased opinion in an argument.

  163. karen
    August 13, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    Taylor will be around as long as her fans want her around and as long as new fans come aboard… it all boils down to her appeal with people, namely young girls who seems to embrace her… sure some will lose interest but she’s still young enough to draw new fans.. it boils down to the fan factor. Taylor and her people are good at this… leave her potential success up to them I guess.. She’s surely a pop culture icon. I don’t know if she can, in the future turn it into something else like Madonna did… we’ll have to wait and see how it spins out.. for now she is here.. Will she sell a mill.. in her first week of cd release??? I don’t know.. I think she’ll fall short a bit.. but lets wait and see..

  164. Stormy
    August 13, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    If she wants to go the Madonna route she is going to have to get a lot braver.

  165. Troy
    August 13, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    What was the last album to sell over a million. I know there were quite a few around 1998-2002 but haven’t really heard of that many after that.

    Swift carear reminds me more of Kylie Mingoue than Madonna. I would rather Taylor do a Kylie over Madonna anyway. Lady Gaga is most likely the heir to Madonna anyway.

  166. Dan E
    August 13, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    Troy: The last one to do so was in 2008 with one of Lil’ Wayne’s albums.

    It’s going to be close, but I hope Taylor can pull it off.

  167. Troy
    August 13, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Can’t be any closer than current chart battle that happending with by favortie singers from uk at number one in single chart midweek ahead by only 300 copies.

    If anyone can sell a milliion in one week right now it would be Taylor.

  168. Wendell
    August 13, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    I thought it was kinda obvious. If you guys don’t get it. The story is about a girl who has been careful about love because her parents had made careless mistakes in the past (possibly teen pregnancy, or divorce) and she doesn’t want to take the risk of what happened with them.

  169. Stormy
    August 14, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Gaga won’t be the heir to Madonna unless she figures out that there needs to be some meaning attached to those images. Yeah it shocking to throw on a rubber nun costume and fake a rape scene, but Like A Prayer was more than just shocking. You had portrayals of a black Saint trying into a plot about an innocent black man being accused in contemporary soceity.

    Right now Taylor has the same problem Miley Cyrus has–she’s a little girl trying to put on her big girl pants. She certainly cannot complete with Gaga and Perry on the “willingness to get naked and put out sexually shocking images” and she really should not try. But here is where she can learn from another pop princess who has made comparisons to those to irrelevant–Rihannon. She has to be willing to pack a punch with her lyrics and her videos that has nothing to do with nudity. Little lightweight fluff like this keeps her in the kiddie pool.
    Lets face it, Miranda Lambert is the only other women in mainstream music who could sell the lines: Life’s a game but it’s not fair
    I break the rules so I don’t care
    So I keep doin’ my own thing
    Walkin’ tall against the rain

  170. Jebber
    August 14, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    It kind of sickens me that this song is A) getting any attention at all and B) getting defended.

    THIS is the epitome of an overproduced, overrated pop song with average (at best) lyrics.

    I guess you can’t expect much more from Taylor Swift fans, but I’ll just leave you all with a sentiment…

    God bless country music.

    And try to think about the term “country music” before daring to label this song as such.

  171. Jon
    August 14, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    I reckon you’ve got a delicate stomach, eh?

  172. Dan E
    August 14, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    I’m thinking about the term … still thinking about it …

    Dare I say – this is great country music!

  173. Stormy
    August 14, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    What about it is great or country?

  174. Jon
    August 14, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Look up at the very top left hand corner of the page. Then look here: http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/country-songs?begin=21&order=position . Then look here: http://www.cmt.com/artists/az/swift__taylor/artist.jhtml . Pretty obvious that this is a country record from a country artist. Of course, whether you think it’s great or not is a separate question – one that’s pretty much purely a matter of taste. B

  175. WAYNOE
    August 14, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    Stormy,

    I was replied to in an earlier thread that a duo is a duo because they say they are.

    So I guess this is a country song because Scott Borchetta said it was.

  176. Stormy
    August 14, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    But did Kris Kristofferson say it was?

  177. WAYNOE
    August 14, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Stormy,

    I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer tonight so you have to explain your wuestion to me. Sorry.

  178. Michelle
    August 14, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    Waynoe, according to Jon you should. Jon said, “If it’s played on country radio, then presuming it’s country is the only sensible course.” I wonder if Jon believes everything he reads or hears in the news.

  179. WAYNOE
    August 14, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Michelle,

    Good point indeed. If it wasn’t so late I would run with your comment but my eyes are dimming for the night. Maybe Jon can post some great wisdom for us to laugh at before we go nighty-night.

  180. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Jon said, “If it’s played on country radio, then presuming it’s country is the only sensible course.”

    And you disagree because…?

  181. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Jon: I disagree because country radio has, in the past, played Bon Jovi, The Eagles, Jessica Simpson, Kid Rock, Sheryl Crow and Bret Michaels. I know none of them are country.

    Waynoe: Kristofferson once famously said “If it SOUNDS country man, that’s what it is. Its a country song.” I’ll trust Kris over Scott.

  182. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Stormy, you say that If the person who makes the record isn’t country (whatever that means), then it’s not a country record.

    So, then, why would you quote Kristofferson as though you agreed with him, when in fact you’ve said something completely different?

    The irony here, by the way, is that Kristofferson was responding to people who were saying back then pretty much the same thing that you’re saying now.

  183. Thomas
    August 15, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    …i miss chris n. a lot. he kinda forced people not to make total fools out of themselves with his short remarks – good ol’ days.

  184. Michelle
    August 15, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Well, Jon, I’ve been told lots of things in my life, but that doesn’t mean they were true. I heard, as I’m sure you did, that water was causing cancer. Did I stop drinking it? Ummm, no! I’ve also heard the world was coming to an end. Did I do anything drastic, like climb the highest mountain, or dig the deepest hole I could dig? Er, no. I was also told I could afford X amount for my house. Did I spend X amount for my house? Absolutely not! There it was in black and white. I could have been able to afford X amount for my house, but that’s ALL I would have been able to afford. Ya know? So, if you can give me one good reason why I should believe a song is country, simply, because it’s being played on country radio then I’ll give it a thought. That doesn’t mean, I’ll buy it. In the meantime, I’ll continue using my better judgement. It hasn’t failed me yet. I do know, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, more than likely it’s a duck. If you catch my drift!

  185. Steve
    August 15, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    It’s obvious in the song that she has a lot of Daddy Problems. I picked up from first listen that her dad left her Mom and her,

    “You made a Rebel of a careless man’s careful daughter”

    “We’ll never make your parents mistakes”

    “I brace myself for the goodbye cause that’s all I’ve ever known”

    And these lyrics aren’t average… for the people who keep saying that. Yes, it could’ve been slightly more to the point but it’s a lot better than a lot of other songs, lyric wise.

    This song to me falls right in the middle. Not on the caliber of “White Horse” or “You Belong With Me” but better than the mediocre single release of “Fearless” (A terrible decision for a single release) and the cliched “Love Story”

    On the subject of her vocals, you either love them or you hate them. I personally love her tone and voice. It’s not like anyone elses on radio. It’s raw and emotional and believable.

  186. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    I do know, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, more than likely it’s a duck. If you catch my drift!

    I think I do, Michelle. Here’s a song by an artist who’s won country category awards from the country music industry (and from the music industry in general) that is being played on country radio stations; stocked in the country section of record stores; written about on country blogs and in the commercial country press, both in print and online; and enjoyed by country music fans. The obvious and reasonable first conclusion is that it’s more than likely a country song, which is just another way of saying what I said.

    It seems to me that if someone wants to argue that, all of that notwithstanding, it’s not a country song, then they need to make a case for why they’re right and the country music industry and community is wrong. And just saying “it doesn’t sound country to me” isn’t much of a case; for one thing, it doesn’t explain why their personal mode of hearing should trump anyone else’s, and for another, it sidesteps the fact that some people have said exactly the same thing in the past about all kinds of records that are now widely (if not universally) accepted as sounding country. Because like almost any other style of music, country is not a static and limited set of sounds; it started out (as a commercial construct, by the way) encompassing a broad range of them, and the range has only increased as the years have gone by.

  187. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Jon: Exactly. Taylor isn’t a country singer and the song doesn’t sound country.

  188. Dan E
    August 15, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    So, Taylor is a country singer and she does sound country.

  189. Thomas
    August 15, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    …taylor swift is a global superstar, coming out of country music, of the magnitude not seen since shania twain or even garth brooks. the argument, whether she’s country enough or country at all or pop for that matter is totally pointless. she reaches the target demographics all around the world. most people, who buy her music do not even bother what genre she should be categorised in – her face and her records are front-shelf material almost everywhere, because they sound like talyor swift, the look like taylor swift and they make her fans feel like – good knows what – taylor swift. taylor is like the proverbial duck.

    and that’s the big difference in status compared to carrie underwood – she hasn’t got that global superstar appeal outside the usa. there, up to now, only insiders know carrie underwood. she’s country. that might change to a certain degree, but not much more – otherwise, it would have happened already.

  190. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Shania Twain wasn’t country either.

  191. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    @Stormy You say Swift isn’t a country singer, other people – including country radio programmers, country journalists, country trade organizations, etc. – say she is. Why does your opinion count for more than theirs?

  192. Waynoe
    August 15, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Jon,

    The reason Stormy’s opinion counts for more is PRECISELY BECASUE she isn’t a robot radio programmer playing what they are told, a clueless country journalist, and is not part of the country trade association.

    Wipe your shoes off on that comment. You stepped into it. Don’t feel bad, I ahve many times.

  193. Waynoe
    August 15, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    “have” instead of “ahve”.

  194. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    @Waynoe and what makes her opinion count more than mine or anyone else that says she is country. Last time i checked i wasn’t any of these ” a robot radio programmer playing what they are told, a clueless country journalist, and is not part of the country trade association.”

  195. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Jon: Do these people say that Taylor is country? I haven’t spoken to them. I don’t hear her at all on the Clear Channel country station I listen to (KVET), so, by your definition, doesn’t that make her not country?
    They do however, play her a lot on three different pop stations.

  196. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    here the pop-country for four out of last 5 single (couldn’t find the pop for fifteen but really didn’tlook to hard for it) Love Story country radio 1 pop radio, white horse country 2 pop radio 23, you belong with me country radio 1 pop radio 2, fearless country radio 10 pop radio 18. So overall country radio plays her more so really doesn’t matter if your country station doesn’t and pop station does to your memory because overall she does get played more by country radio stations.

  197. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    @Waynoe See Troy’s question. For instance, immediately after Stormy wrote that Swift isn’t a country singer and this record doesn’t sound country, Dan E. wrote that Swift is a country singer and this record does sound country – and he would seem to fit your description PRECISELY as much as Stormy does.

    Furthermore, I would like to know why you believe that the less a person knows about a subject, the more his or her opinion counts. That seems a little odd.

    @Stormy Are you kidding? You are having this discussion on a blog that is labeled “country music.” If you go to Amazon.com’s country music page and look under upcoming releases, the album that “Mine” comes from is listed. The song debuted at #26 on Billboard’s Hot Country Singles chart, and that news was covered on CMT (Country Music Television)’s website, while Swift’s impeding induction into the International Bowling Hall Of Fame was covered on GAC (Great American Country)’s website. When you look under the “just added” titles on iTunes using the “Country” filter, this song is listed. She’s got a rack of awards from the Country Music Association and the Academy of Country Music, as well as awards in the Country field from NARAS. I’m surprised that a professed country music fan such as yourself hasn’t heard or heard of Taylor Swift; she’s an exceedingly well known country artist.

    I don’t hear her at all on the Clear Channel country station I listen to (KVET), so, by your definition, doesn’t that make her not country?

    You flunked logic, didn’t you?

  198. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    CMT also played Janet Jackson. Is she country?

  199. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    @Stormy I still haven’t seen where you have explained why it wasn’t country. other than saying its not country

  200. Dan E
    August 15, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    So far, a marvelous 200 comments for “Mine”!

  201. Michelle
    August 15, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Jon, how many fans of ___ (I’ll let you fill in the blank) are pop fans, instead of country fans that just so happen to like ___, because she’s pop, instead of country? I mean, aren’t all the people you named above making money off of the artists or not? What better artists to market or promote than someone that appeals to more than just country fans? Right or wrong? I can’t tell you the times I’ve read or heard people say, “I don’t like country, but I like ___. Who’s going to sell more albums or have more fans, an artist who only appeals to country fans or one who has fans from more than just the country genre? Simply, because a lot of their fans don’t like country, but like ___ and have every reason to.

  202. Michelle
    August 15, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    BTW, Jon, what’s your favorite Swift song?

  203. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Troy:
    The vocals are pop, the lyrics are written to appeal to a pop audience, the instrumentation is detwanged and pop and the production is pop.

  204. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    @Michelle almost every artist has fan that are i dont like this style but I like this. I don’t normally like rap but I like Lisa Left Eyes raps in TLC. By your logic does that mean she isn’t rapping.

    @Stormy all you was break down the parts of a song and they are pop not and explaintion.

    I think as far as the lyrics go they are country because of details in the song and hows like story telling. As for it pop production it doesn’t sound like Christina Not myself Tonight, Britney Spears 3, The Saturdays Higher, Kesha Your Love Is My Drug, Katy Perry California Gurls, Lady Gaga Bad Romance, Rihanna Rude Boy, Leona Lewis Happy, Cheryl Cole Fight For This Love. I could keep going but this mainly what pop spectrum in production

  205. Michelle
    August 15, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Troy, I like all kinds of music. I have my favorites, of course. I would never deny that Lisa Left Eye was a rapper, but I never heard her on a country station rapping.

  206. Nelson
    August 15, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    “It seems to me that if someone wants to argue that, all of that notwithstanding, it’s not a country song, then they need to make a case for why they’re right and the country music industry and community is wrong.”

    Yeah, who are you going to believe — Jon and the industry or your lying ears?

  207. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    TLC got played on pop radio they were still mainly R&B and rap that was the point not that they getting played on country radio.

  208. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    @Nelson That’s where having a command of the sweep of nearly 100 years of country music history comes in handy; you understand that how a particular person – maybe even one own’s self – reacts to a particular record at a particular point in time isn’t really a very good standard by which to evaluate what belongs in the genre and what doesn’t. One knows that records by artists from Bob Wills to Patsy Cline to Waylon Jennings have been ruled out of country at the time they were released; one knows that “Stand By Your Man” or “Guitar Town” or “For The Good Times” or “Ready To Run” doesn’t really sound very much like a Jimmie Rodgers blue yodel or the Carter Family’s “Sweet Fern” or Eck Robertson’s “Sally Goodin.” Like I said, country music started out wide and has just gotten wider; having a grasp of its history keeps one grounded in that regard.

    Of course, I’m betting that you don’t have anything approaching such a grasp. Am I right?

    @Michelle I don’t see why having a crossover hit, or even a generalized crossover appeal, keeps one from being a country artist. The history of country music has quite a few such artists, some of whom are in the Hall of Fame.

    @Stormy As Troy suggests, repeating a statement in slightly different terms is not the same as explaining it. Besides, you still owe me an answer on the matter of your flunking logic; your misinterpretation of my statement reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of that subject.

  209. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    It DOES sound like “Not A Girl, Not Yet a Woman,” “Alejandro” (with slightly less complicted daddy-issue lyrics), and Unfaithful. She is never going to sound like Leona Lewis or X-Tina because they can actually sing.

  210. Michelle
    August 15, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    I imagine they were pretty successful, too, weren’t they?

  211. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    @Stormy CMT also played Janet Jackson. Is she country?

    I’ve played country music in Texas. Does that make me a Texas country artist?

  212. Nelson
    August 15, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    “one knows that “Stand By Your Man” or “Guitar Town” or “For The Good Times” or “Ready To Run” doesn’t really sound very much like a Jimmie Rodgers blue yodel or the Carter Family’s “Sweet Fern” or Eck Robertson’s “Sally Goodin.””

    You need a command of the sweep of 100 years of country music history to know that those songs don’t sound like each other? Gee, I could tell that just by listening to them. I may be just a lowly fan but I’ll still trust my own ears and judgement over that of a pompous windbag like you.

  213. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    @Stormy some good came of this i listen to Im not a girl not yet a women and unfaithly some bad i had to listen to alejandro. So I’m not a girl not yet women in compared to mine its a piano ballad and uses some synths it same with unfaithful. Mine is uptempo so to start for comparsion maybe you pick a list a song thats in the same tempo. And finally for Alejandro where in the song does she sound like ace of base im mean lady gaga doing a european accent and this song uses syths Mine doesn’t nor does it sound like an early 90’s pop song.

  214. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    Michelle were you talking to me or jon with

    “I imagine they were pretty successful, too, weren’t they?”

  215. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Troy: This isn’t about tempo, its about genre. But you are right, Taylor does sound a lot like current day Ace of Base.

  216. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    JOn: So what dongs CAN I apply your definition of country to?

  217. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Sorry, that should be So, to what songs can I apply your definition of country?

  218. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    @Stormy Try to keep up, please.

    If it’s played on country radio, then it’s presumably country

    and

    If it’s not played on counry radio, then it’s presumably not country

    are not logically equivalent statements. Can you see why, or do you need me to explain it to you?

  219. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    @Stormy that was error I meant to say not early 90’s obviously even if I was going to but Taylor in any other music era it would be late 90’s not early 90’s.

    Mine doesn’t have a large piano part in it so that takes Im not a girl not yet a women, and unfaithful. And mine doesn’t uses elements of europop so that takes out Alejandro.

  220. Michelle
    August 15, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Sorry, Troy, that was for you. I didn’t refresh and looks like I should have. I’m still trying to think of a response for Jon, because he’s got a good point, but still…

  221. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    okay then yes they were succesful but their cross over success didn’t make them any less R&B/rap just like Taylor Swift cross over success doesn’t make her any less country

  222. Michelle
    August 15, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    Troy, where you and I differ is, Taylor could have been singing pop all along and would have fit in perfectly (to me). Someone who is a a bigger fan of pop than country isn’t going to care if it’s pop or country being played on country radio. Ya know? I mean, why the heck would they care.

  223. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    @Michelle unless they genuinely like both types of music like I do. I mainly like country, pop,R&B, with some Dance. I would like country/R&B station that they are playing to represent that kind of music. A lot of pop radio is more of what is popular so they have more room to play songs that aren’t pop. Going along with that if only pop fans were listening to Taylor swift why would country music still be playing it. They would be listening to pop raido.

  224. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 8:27 pm Permalink @Stormy that was error I meant to say not early 90’s obviously even if I was going to but Taylor in any other music era it would be late 90’s not early 90’s.

    Mine doesn’t have a large piano part in it so that takes Im not a girl not yet a women, and unfaithful. And mine doesn’t uses elements of europop so that takes out Alejandro.

    That’s instrumentation, not genre. If Taylor’s music is not pop, why does it fit so well on pop playlists?

  225. Dan E
    August 15, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Stormy: Taylor Swift is both country and pop – hence the terms country-pop or pop-country. All of her songs are country, while just a handful are pop (and that’s with remixing added to them).

    I mean, I’ve never heard White Horse on any pop station.

  226. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Its instrumentation yes but i said a song it sounds like that is pop and you offered those as songs that it sounds like therefore instruments come into play. I dont really find her that easy to fit on a pop playlist.

    which one doesn’t fit
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpFMuBHxGWs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTs6oQx1WJY&feature=av2e
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_-UiAwEgbQ&feature=av2n
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTXBDNHJcvQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVBsypHzF3U&feature=av2e
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTXBDNHJcvQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QDkYOUoxH8

    She much more fits in with Kellie Pickler, Carrie Underwood, Miranda Lambert, Keith Urban, Lady A so on

  227. Stormy
    August 15, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Then why do all of her songs fit in on pop playlists, but none of them fit in on actual country playlists?

  228. Dan E
    August 15, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    They all fit in with country, a handful will fit in with pop if they get poppier beats added to them, like I just said previously.

  229. Michelle
    August 15, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Troy, I never said, “ONLY pop fans listen to Taylor,” but I think a large majority does. For one thing, Troy, she started out on country radio not pop radio. Why? You tell me. Troy, being the big pop fan that you are, does Taylor really sound country to you or do you like her, because she doesn’t?

  230. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    If Taylor’s music is not pop, why does it fit so well on pop playlists?

    If Patsy Cline’s music wasn’t pop, why did it fit so well on pop playlists?

    If “A Boy Named Sue” wasn’t a pop song, why did it fit so well on pop playlists?

    If “Harper Valley P.T.A.” wasn’t a pop song, why did it fit so well on pop playlists?

    If Rodney Crowell’s “Ashes By Now” wasn’t a pop song, why did fit better on pop playlists than country playlists?

    If “Dueling Banjos” wasn’t a pop song, why did it fit better on pop playlists than on country playlists?

    And so on, ad infinitum. Letting success in the pop field determine whether you think a record is a country record doesn’t make any sense. The question is how records and the artists who make them do in the country field, and Taylor Swift’s done quite well there – in airplay, in coverage, in awards, and every other aspect. To say that her music is country music doesn’t mean the same thing as saying you like it, or even that you think it’s “good for country music” (whatever that means); it simply means that you acknowledge reality.

    By the way, Stormy, are you clear now on the difference between saying that if a record is played on country radio, it’s presumptively a country record, and saying that if a record isn’t played on country radio, it’s presumptively not a country record? You get that they aren’t logically equivalent? Or are you still confused?

  231. Troy
    August 15, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    @Michelle No does that make all the country singer I like pop just because I like pop music. I like Taylor mainly for her lyrics im in her target audience and her lyrics are very easier to relate to. If anything it should make it easier for me to determine if she is pop or country. There is definitely a difference between Taylor and Britney.

    If most of her fans were pop music fans than why has she gotten more airplay and higher charting single in country music. If most of her fans were pop wouldn’t be the opposite where she got mainy played on pop radio and had only limited success on country.

  232. Jon
    August 15, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    Then why do all of her songs fit in on pop playlists, but none of them fit in on actual country playlists?

    *facepalm*

    You do realize that you’re just stating your conclusion as a premise, don’t you?

  233. Stephen H.
    August 15, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    I don’t have a dog in this fight, and don’t really care in the long run whether Taylor’s “country” or “pop” or both, but I just want to state my happiness at seeing the subject of contrapositives come up in this thread.

  234. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 7:48 am

    Troy and Dan: The problem is that Taylor’s music already GETS played on pop stations and does not get played on real country stations.

  235. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 7:52 am

    Jon:
    1. They fit equally well on country playlists.
    2. An occassional song crossing over is not the same thing as an artists entire body of work having more elements of pop than elements of country.
    3. I am not stating anything as a conclusion or a premise. I am asking a question, which you can tell by the nifty question mark.

  236. Troy
    August 16, 2010 at 8:52 am

    What do you mean she doesn’t get played one real country station. How did she get 4 number one singles on country radio then?

  237. Jon
    August 16, 2010 at 9:03 am

    @Stormy 1. They fit equally well on country playlists.

    So do Taylor Swift’s songs. Apparently you’ve missed the fact that they’ve done very well at country radio.

    An occassional song crossing over is not the same thing as an artists entire body of work having more elements of pop than elements of country.

    Are you laboring under the delusions 1) that musical elements are neatly and objectively separable into mutually exclusive “pop” and “country” categories; 2) that if they were, one could quantify the extent of each in a given body of work and 3) that if both of those were possible, you’d be in any way qualified to undertake the jobs?

    (By the way, you do know, don’t you, that all of Patsy Cline’s singles released during her lifetime crossed over to the pop chart? She was quite the controversial figure – kind of the Taylor Swift of her day.)

    I am not stating anything as a conclusion or a premise. I am asking a question, which you can tell by the nifty question mark.

    That reminds me, you never did answer the question about whether you flunked logic, did you? I’m starting to see why. Not only have you confused a proposition with its inverse, but you’ve confused an observation about logic with one about punctuation, despite the fact that you’ve just said the same thing yet again in a way that doesn’t involve a question mark:

    Taylor’s music…does not get played on real country stations.

    Just as with your earlier question, the conclusion – that Taylor Swift’s music isn’t country – is offered as a premise. In this case, the premise is in the use of the word “real” to modify “country stations,” because your definition of a “real” country station will eventually turn out to revolve around its not playing Taylor Swift’s music or music you consider to be like it. The presence or absence of a question mark is irrelevant to the fallacy.

  238. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 11:06 am

    1. Taylor Swift’s songs only fit on pre-purged playlists. You won’t hear them played along with new songs by Willie or Merle.

    2. A. Musical elements are pretty easy to differentiate, if you have an ear, B. Its fairly easy to quantify someone whose music is 100% pop and 3. Most of us on here are not the drooling idiots you seem to think we are. I may not have quite the knowledge of the niche 60’s artists in country that you have, but I probably do have a stronger knowledge of contemporary pop.

    3. Why would I answer a ridiculously stupid question like that? But since you really must know, I topped out on all my logic challeges, to the extent that my ACT tests encouraged a career in Law. That you continue to confuse a question designed to get people look and listen more carefully to Taylor’s music and the music it is surrounded by as a thesis statement speaks to your comprehension problems, not my own.
    Let me set it up for you as a simply mathmatical equation.

    T(C)=A(P)

    Where
    T=Taylor Swift
    C=Country
    A=Avril Lavigne
    P=Punk.

  239. Ben Foster
    August 16, 2010 at 11:57 am

    I don’t really see any point in quibbling extensively over whether or not Taylor Swift is country, or why she has been so well-received at country radio. Vocal imperfections aside, she has the marketable image that radio and record companies look for, and she has a likeable personality. Besides that, her music fits in with the current country radio climate, and she came along at a time when country radio was ready for her. I think that’s all it really boils down to.

  240. Troy
    August 16, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    @Stormy just because merle and willie aren’t getting played on mainstream country radio doesn’t mean that current radio isn’t country. Celine Dion hasn’t had a pop hit for years. Current pop stars are still pop. I can’t remeber the last time I heard My Heart Will Go On on pop radio and its one of the best selling pop songs ever. My Heart Will Go On really doesn’t really fit current pop playlist. Any song that sounds remotly close to it has flopped Leona Lewis Happy or I See You didn’t become hugh radio hits because it wasn’t as easy to put kesha, britney, lady gaga and then put Happy/I See You on. Does that not make happy/I See You a pop song or current artist not pop singers?

  241. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Celine Dion is AC pop, and Leona Lewis does get played on AC pop stations.

    Its not just that Willie and Merle aren’t getting played on stations that play Taylor, its that Taylor isn’t getting played on stations that play Willie and Merle.

  242. Jon
    August 16, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    1. Taylor Swift’s songs only fit on pre-purged playlists. You won’t hear them played along with new songs by Willie or Merle.

    QED.

    Most of us on here are not the drooling idiots you seem to think we are.

    I don’t think most people on here are drooling idiots. I don’t even think that you’re a drooling idiot, even though you sometimes do a dead-on impersonation of one. But I do think that your notions of what country music has been and is are the product of ignorance about country music; an uncritical acceptance of what passes for conventional wisdom on the hipster side of middlebrow culture; and a much higher opinion of your own tastes, musical abilities and quality of thought than is, according to the evidence, warranted.

    As for the “ridiculously stupid question” about whether you flunked your logic courses, I believe I explained the reason for it; if you were not so utterly enthralled by your own rhetoric, you would have realized that you made a logical mistake with respect to my “definition” of country music that would be embarrassing to any moderately self-aware high school sophomore, and then compounded the error with a separate set of circular arguments, some cast in the form of rhetorical questions, some not. Furthermore, you have hopped around from point to point like a cat on a hot tin roof, leaving a trail of unanswered questions and unrefuted observations along the way – just as you have done now by trying to shift the discussion to one about Avril Lavigne and punk. I barely recognize the name, have no interest in punk, and see no logical (there’s that word again) reason to discuss whether Taylor Swift should be considered a country artist by discussing whether some other artist should be considered as categorizable in some other genre.

    As I’ve already pointed out, Taylor Swift is covered as a country artist in country music publications (like this one); her music is played as country music on country radio; her videos air as country music on country video channels; she is given country category awards by country music organizations and by general music organizations; and she calls herself a country artist. The history of country music says that when you have all those things (and more) lined up and going in the same direction, then whether you like that artist’s music or not; whether you think it’s good for country music or not; and whether it meets some aspiring writer and karaoke singer’s definition of country or not; you’re looking at a country artist.

    And that’s all the time I’m going to spend on this go-round.

  243. Troy
    August 16, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    @stormy and yet AC pop has before got played on regular pop stations and during part of 90’s much of the just pop station played ac pop. AC pop is a sub genre of pop music. Lewis hasn’t done that well on AC pop either. Its not that Celine isn’t get played on radio station that kesha is on, its that kesha isn’t getting played on radio that Celine is.

    Here a better math problems for you of subgenre of both music

    Current landscape of music
    CC EP > TC ACP

    Cc =Contemporary country
    EP =electro pop
    TC = tradional country
    ACP = adult contemporary pop

    contemporary country is getting more airplay over tradional just like electro is getting more over over ac. AC and Electro pop are both sub genre of pop just because one is doing better on radio doesn’t make the other not pop. just because tradional country isn’t getting as much air play doesn’t make contemporary country not country.

  244. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Jon:
    1. Sorry, but high school was the last time I was involved in little logic quizzes.
    2. Avril is absolutely on point as she is very much one of the artists Taylor sounds like. Trying to make Taylor country is akin to trying to make Avril punk. Perhaps if you bothered to learn a bit about music overall you would understand why Taylor fits more easily with pop playlists than with country playlists.
    3. I do ignore much of your more ridiculous questions and obsurb refutations because they stem from a desire to mire down in the minutia rather than directly discuss anything to do with the point of the discussion. For example, you asked a catty question about my logic skills, I provided you with an objective answer you didn’t like and now you want to debate that instead of the question.
    4. Yeah, I have such an “uncritical acceptance of what passes for conventional wisdom on the hipster side of middlebrow culture” that I have in the past downloaded Rihannion’s “Unfaithful,” MIA’s “Paper Planes,” Kelis’ “Milkshake,” Nelly’s “Ride Wit Me” and both “Don’t Stop” and “Take It Off” by KeSha. I have a vast and varied collection of music–you might get over your snobbery of pop and try that–but owning Gwen Steffani songs doesn’t mean that I have to pretend she is rock; owning Avril Lavigne songs doesn’t mean I have to pretend she is punk, owning 4 Martina McBride cds doesn’t mean I have to pretend she is country and owning music by Ke$sha doesn’t mean I can’t see the glaring flaws in it.

  245. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    @stormy and yet AC pop has before got played on regular pop stations and during part of 90’s much of the just pop station played ac pop. AC pop is a sub genre of pop music. Lewis hasn’t done that well on AC pop either. Its not that Celine isn’t get played on radio station that kesha is on, its that kesha isn’t getting played on radio that Celine is.

    That’s more of a target audience issue than a genre issue.

    Where have I ever talked about traditional country?

  246. Troy
    August 16, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Rihanna not Rihannion not that im trying to be strict on spelling because I know mine own can get confusing and be horriable but early in the conversation you said something about Rihannion but it didn’t have a song by her with it and i wasn’t quite sure if you were talking about Rihanna or someone else.

  247. Troy
    August 16, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    trade traditonal country with what ever sub genre you would put Willie nelson and Merle in. Same thing applies. I brought that up because you basically were immpling that if Merle or Willie weren’t being played on the same radio as Taylor Swift that makes her not country.

    Most of the Taylor not country, shania isn’t country, Carrie underwood isn’t country comes down to the fact that people saying its not country would rather have artist like Willie or merle still playing and are little bitter over it so they attack contemporary country because they don’t want it and they don’t review it properly they just think this isn’t the country style I want so its not country.

  248. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    See, this is where you confuse me. Willie and Merle make contemporary country and they still get played on all three of the country stations I listen to.

  249. Troy
    August 16, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    @Stormy country pop music then. when I listened to Willie new stuff it didn’t sound contempororary radio. Most people that ive seen talk about contemporary country more as top 40 on country radio. Are your radio station more genre specific radio or is it just general radio you listen to. I find it hard to believe that were you live is different than the rest of the country radio plays in the us. If Willie and merle new stuff was getting more radio on country charts than Taylor wouldn’t they be charting?

  250. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Taylor can’t be country pop–there are no elements of Patsy Cline in her sound. Or Lynn Anderson, Rosanne Cash..what country pop artists do you feel she draws from?

    Two of the radio station I listen to are fan based Americana stations that play quite a lot of country, but KVET is a straight up Clear Channel country station.

  251. Jon
    August 16, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    KVET is a straight up Clear Channel country station.

    Not surprisingly, that’s not exactly the full story.

    KVET-FM is owned by Clear Channel Austin, but so is KASE-FM; they are the only 2 commercial country stations in the market.

    KVET-FM’s tagline is “The Genuine Austin Original,” and its playlist(see http://www.kvet.com/iplaylist/playlist.html) caters to that portion of the Austin public that is mostly interested in “Texas music,” whether by Americana or more mainstream artists, mostly from manly men (there are only 2 female artists in their top 40, both from Texas), and airing a *lot* of recurrents and older catalog stuff. It is “a straight up Clear Channel country station” only in the sense that it is owned “straight up” by Clear Channel. It is, in the strictest sense of the word, Austin’s alternative country station.

    KASE-FM is Austin’s straight up Clear Channel country station. Its tagline is “Today’s Country & Your All Time Favorites.” In the most recent Arbitron rankings, KVET-FM came in 4th, while KASE-FM came in 2nd. And Taylor Swift’s “Mine” is currently at #11 on KASE-FM’s playlist (see http://www.kase101.com/iplaylist/playlist.html).

    In short, Stormy’s not hearing it on local country radio not because it’s not being aired there, but because she’s only listening to the “pre-purged playlists” (to use her term) of KVET – “pre-purged,” that is, of most mainstream country.

  252. Troy
    August 16, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    @Stormy but not country station they are Americana stations. After quick research of KVET it came up that its more of sports station a plays country music when it wants to. The two country station where I which are actually country station not americana are 107.3 cat country and frogger 92.5 which play Taylor a lot.

    Patsy Cline to Olivia newton john to dolly parton to shania twain/faith hill to taylor swift

    To ask a song from 60’s to 2000 is kind of silly any way but with natural progression of music i find taylor song to draw from patsy cline

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuZTk1hdpMs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BabmBHVfSW0

  253. Troy
    August 16, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    So Taylor is playlisted on the mainstreat country station in your area. And the country station that your saying is an alterative country radio station. Why am I not surprised?

  254. Brady Vercher
    August 16, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    I wouldn’t call KVET an Americana station, a sports station, or say that they cater to the portion of the Austin public that is mostly interested in “Texas music,” although they are very supportive of it and do have segments dedicated to it. It’s only alternative in the sense that their programming isn’t similar to your typical Clear Channel country station. Their playlist is much more diverse, but nevertheless, it’s mostly country music without the modifiers.

    I would agree, though, that claiming KVET is representative of what’s considered country music in this day and age is a specious argument at best.

    KASE is definitely more representative of what you’d hear in most other markets in the US.

  255. Jon
    August 16, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    @Brady I wouldn’t …say that [KVET] cater to the portion of the Austin public that is mostly interested in “Texas music,” although they are very supportive of it and do have segments dedicated to it….

    OK; I’m just going by the playlist posted on the website, which – to a Tennessean, at least – looks pretty Texas-centric.

    It’s only alternative in the sense that their programming isn’t similar to your typical Clear Channel country station.

    I agree, and that’s what I meant by the strictest sense of alternative; Clear Channel already *has* a “typical” country station in the market, so KVET is their alternative to that.

    I mean, if it were an Americana station, it would be airing current releases from Haggard and Nelson ;-).

  256. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Kase sucks. 6 people in my 10 person office listen to country and none of them listen to Kase.

    Jokes on you Jon–KVET has Willie Wednesdays every Wednesday, he has been known to fill in on their morning show and they are one of the first stations in the country to get all of his new releases.

    You can hear Taylor on KASE, but you hear her a lot more frequently on The Mix 94.7, Majic 95.5 and Kiss FM 96.7. That’s a three to one pop to country ratio.

  257. Troy
    August 16, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    @stormy does it really matter that six people you know listento KVET, when it was just showed that KASE had more listeners.

    The three to one thing doesn’t really work either because that depends on the number on stations in the area. In my area we have 6 pop stations and two country stations.

    As for the three pop station playing Taylor more. Taylor wasn’t on top 40 on The Mix 94.7 or Majic 95.5 and it wasn’t in the top 20 on Kiss FM 96.7. But it is number 11 on KASE.

  258. Brady Vercher
    August 16, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    @Jon: “OK; I’m just going by the playlist posted on the website, which – to a Tennessean, at least – looks pretty Texas-centric.

    Yeah, I’m not sure how those playlists are compiled, but that top 30 or so is pretty Texas-centric. If it’s based on spins, then I imagine the evening Texas segment probably has a narrower playlist, so they play the same songs more often.

    I agree, and that’s what I meant by the strictest sense of alternative

    I wasn’t clear on that, so I’m glad to know we’re on the same page. I thought others might start thinking they predominantly play alternative-country (alt.country?).

  259. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    KASE and KVET switch back and forth.

  260. Jon
    August 16, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    You can hear Taylor on KASE, but you hear her a lot more frequently on The Mix 94.7, Majic 95.5 and Kiss FM 96.7.

    Which is more plausible: that Stormy spends hours listening to a station that she has already said she doesn’t listen to and thinks sucks, or that she actually has no idea how often Taylor Swift gets played on said station?

  261. Stormy
    August 16, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    Which is more plausible, that someone who lives in Austin knows about Austin stations or that someone who lives in Tennessee knows about them?

  262. Jess
    August 17, 2010 at 7:50 am

    The problem is most of both the fans and haters are ‘blind’. Like those Britney Spears fans trying to argue with anyone who dares to say she’s not Little Miss Perfect. Oh, well. It’s not about any of you here anyway.

    I AM a Taylor Swift fan, but I do recognize she’s a lot (A LOT) more pop than country. She gets a lot of fans from pop music. She started more country than she is now, I mean, just listen to Tied Together With A Smile from her debut album. But, even though I really like Mine, it’s more like a JohnMayerish pop-folk than country, I guess.

    That line that was so discussed here, ‘you made a rebel of a careless man’s careful daughter’ IS explained by the song as a whole and what she said of it. Mostly, anyway. I think she should have explained the whole rebellion thing. I hadn’t really put much thought to that before you guys questioned it so much.

    As for the ‘role model’ thing, it IS much better for the kids, pre-teens and teens of today to be exposed to a teen girl who’s not singing about partying, getting drunk on a beach and how she ‘can’t be tamed’, right? But I agree the whole princess/fairytale thing HAS TO GO. Lyrics like ‘Change’ would be nice to see.

  263. Troy
    August 17, 2010 at 7:53 am

    Well since you can go on the radios website and see their playlist right there I would say that that one doesn’t matter. Especially since your going just by memory and he hes looking at their playlist so I say the Tennessee.

  264. Stormy
    August 17, 2010 at 8:36 am

    I hadn’t really put much thought to that before you guys questioned it so much.

    I don’t think she put that much thought into it either.

    As for singing about sex on the beach, Katy Perry isn’t a teenager, she’s 25.

  265. sam (sam)
    August 17, 2010 at 10:57 am

    I agree with Troy that Jon is more credible about the playlist issue than Stormy but I would also add that Jon never asked who was more credible. He implied that Stormy might not really know how often KASE plays Taylor Swift because she claims not to listen to the station.

    Stormy tried to change the topic by asking whether it was more credible that someone from Austin or Tennessee would know what is being played on the station. But that kind of question was never at issue. And it was hardly Jon’s point, which was (as I interpret it) that Stormy might not really know of what she speaks.

  266. Jess
    August 17, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Stormy, I wasn’t talking about Katy, or anyone specific. Except when I obviously referred to Miley Cyrus. lol
    Not that I don’t like them, though.

  267. Stormy
    August 17, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Sam: The problem is Sam, Kase doesn’t have anything on its website that says how often it plays ANY songs.

    Jess: Except that Taylor is 21. She is as much Katy’s peer as Miley’s, for all that Taylor seems much more immature.
    This reminds me of The Dixie Chicks circa Fly. People started clutching their pearls because a group of young women were singing songs about drinking and “matress dancing.” They were not being role models at all. The Chicks reminded everyone that they were young, single women in their 20’s. They were going to go out, they were going to drink and they were going to have sex–it only made sense to sing about things they related to. Plus, its never exactly been their job to be role models.

  268. Jon
    August 17, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Kase doesn’t have anything on its website that says how often it plays ANY songs.

    http://www.kase101.com/iplaylist/playlist.html

  269. Dan E
    August 17, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Stormy: Taylor is 20 years old, not 21.

  270. Jess
    August 17, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Stormy: I see what you mean, it’s true. It’s not exactly anyone’s job to be role models and Taylor IS in her 20’s. Maybe she’s just different, kinda like me. lol

  271. Stormy
    August 17, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Or maybe she is just really immature.

  272. Troy
    August 17, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    @Stormy excatly what are your reason for thinking Taylor is immature. This might not be exactly what you were saying but this is how it came off to me that if Taylor isn’t drinking, and doesn’t talk about having sex she immature. I know Taylor doesn’t drink she said so in many interviews and she still is underage. And about the sex thing who knows if she has or not but if she hasn’t are you saying that makes her immature. when you make some of your statements try to back them up a little. Don’t just say she immature say why you think she is.

  273. sam (sam)
    August 17, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Why are people insinuating that Taylor Swift is “just really immature?”

    And what exactly is meant by this anyway? Is the claim that Swift is “really immature” compared to other people around her age? If so, where is the evidence? Is the claim that Swift – at age 20 – is less “mature” than a typical 30 year old or 50 year old? If so, what is the point of such claims?

    Perhaps the claim is that Swift is less mature than Perry or Miley Cyrus. But again what’s the point of this sort of discussion? Is there any solid evidence to support this?

  274. Stormy
    August 17, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    All of her relationships are fairytales and they don’t have any of the mess that is reality. Her lyrics largely sound like something you would read on the poetry page of YM or Seventeen. Compare with what Catherine Britt was writing at 16, and its just immature.

  275. Troy
    August 17, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    @Stormy ah out of fearless I got that the album was breaking out of fairytales. It was showing how in the past she thought relationships were fairytales and coming to realization that it wasn’t hence why Love Story was first single. I know that was love story that was swiftly (haha didn’t mean to that) releashed White Horse which even though it talks about Fairytales its basically saying they aren’t real. White Horse, Fifteen, Your Not Sorry, Breathe, Forever and Always, Tell Me Why. Breathe is extremly realistic. Which songs on fearless are fairytales beside love story and fearless. Best day and change just aren’t. You Belong With Me the vdieo yes the song its self no.

    I know youll most likely say Today Was A fairy tale but that was really just a promo song for Valetines Day what other type of song would she sing after seeing that movie

  276. sam (sam)
    August 17, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    The claim that “all her relationships are fairytales” is self evidently wrong. Several of Swift’s songs have nothing to do with fairy tales. Some of Swift’s songs are fairy-tale-esque, but at least one discusses the fact that life is not a fairy tale. And other Swift songs have nothing to do whatsoever with a fairy tale.

    Interestingly, Stormy accuses Swift of immaturity because Swift allegedly leaves out of her lyrics “the mess that is reality.” And yet Stormy frequently seems to leave out of her arguments those “messy facts” and “reality” that do not accord with her preferred interpertations.

  277. Stormy
    August 17, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    But they thing is, why is she telling us fairy tales aren’t real. If we are over 10, we already know.

    And her new song is another fairy tale view of romance.

  278. Troy
    August 17, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    I didn’t mean that she was telling us fairy tales aren’t real I was saying that fearless was about her realization that Fairy tales aren’t real from her relationships and this realization depends on what time the person starts dating. And really if a song has struggle in it and then ends up good it could be viewed as fairy tale does that mean that an artist should never write a song about a relationship working out.

    And thanks for skipping over the point that none of her songs deal with real life after I gave you an example with breathe.

  279. Jon
    August 17, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    And her new song is another fairy tale view of romance.

    Yeah, because nobody ever gets into a long-term relationship that overcomes obstacles.

    I love the mode of criticism that Stormy’s gotten into now:

    “Why is Johnny Cash telling us that it’s no fun being in jail. If we are over 10, we already know.”

  280. Leeann Ward
    August 17, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    I’m going to have to agree with Jon here. I’m not seeing how this song paints anything but reality in many people’s relationships. Sure, the dialogue isn’t real, but the story is for many people.

  281. Dan E
    August 17, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Just because there is a happy ending doesn’t mean it’s a fairytale.

    (By the way, fairytales are awesome. So, I definitely wouldn’t mind if she had a couple on her new album.)

    *”Mine” is not a fairytale song.

  282. Stormy
    August 17, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    What obstacles? One fight that mostly involves one person crying and the other person talking them out of it? This song is like a 12-year-old tried to write Sheryl Crow’s No One Said It Would Be Easy:
    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/sherylcrow/noonesaiditwouldbeeasy.html

  283. Troy
    August 17, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    the obstacle of girl opening up to relationship even though she been gaurded by her parents past relationship. Seems lie a big obstacles to me.

    followed by lines like
    “I was a flight risk with a fear of fallin’, Wondering why we bother with love if it never lasts”

    “You learn my secrets and you figure out why I’m guarded, You say we’ll never make my parent’s mistakes.”

    Then brings up a big fight that in Taylor past relationship would have ended the relationship but they offer came that obstacle.

    So there is two for you

  284. Troy
    August 17, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    on sheryl crow song

    “It’s obvious the trouble we’re in
    When your father pulls up in a Mercedes Benz
    He says he just happened to be in the neighborhood
    But before he leaves he slips the landlord the rent”

    then chorus said no one said it would be easy

    hmm big obstacle they are over coming having his father pay their bills thats diffcult to overcome

    and the other big obstacle in sheryl song

    You can’t seem to ever fold up a shirt
    I bring it up and you think I’m a jerk

    woah he didn’t fold up the shirt! its over I cant believe it and he calls her a jerk harsh name calling.

    The first one wasn’t really an obstacle and the second one was a very small one. Taylor obstacles seem MUCH bigger to me then those in sheryl.

  285. Stormy
    August 17, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Jon: That is the list of songs that they play, not how often they play them.

    Troy:
    The issue in the Sheryl Crow song is the daily minutae bickering that bog couples down–not being able to pay the bills, having to swallow your pride and let a parent pay the bills, not really being able to cook food your SO likes, one person being much more slobish than the other. This is what couples fight about all the time.

    Taylor’s song doesn’t have any problems. It has Oprah-esque drive bys of places where the problems would be. Granted, Taylor has probably never had a real grown up relationship with real grown up problems, but this song is the equvilent of a Harliquin Romance Novel.

  286. Troy
    August 17, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    @stormy sounds like a bunch of immature petty things that couples fight about in sheryl song while taylor obstacles are of real importance that by themselves could end a relationship or prevent one from even starting.

    “Taylor’s song doesn’t have any problems. ”

    Didn’t I just explain the problems? I thought I clearly explain the problem of Taylor being guarded by past relationship and her parents relationship and how that is a problem.

  287. Stormy
    August 17, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Troy:
    Those aren’t actual problems, those are storybook problems.
    Sheryl’s problems actually break up marriages. The most common thing that people fight about is money.

  288. Dan E
    August 17, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Stormy: Taylor mentioned about bills, a problem in many relationships. You really can’t be this clueless. I think you’re just looking for excuses to disagree with people.

    Also, for someone who obviously despises this song, you’ve contributed an awful lot of posts towards it.

  289. Stormy
    August 17, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    Taylor breezes past paying bills. She doesn’t deal with the struggle of not being able to pay them.

  290. Jon
    August 18, 2010 at 7:24 am

    Jon: That is the list of songs that they play, not how often they play them.

    Really? You think they’re randomly ordered? You think it’s just a coincidence that almost all of their first 20 songs are the same as Billboard’s chart of the 20 most-played songs at reporting country radio?

  291. Stormy
    August 18, 2010 at 8:02 am

    Actually, they probably just copy and paste from the main CC playlist.

  292. Troy
    August 18, 2010 at 8:10 am

    @Stormy “Sheryl’s problems actually break up marriages. The most common thing that people fight about is money.”

    Where in this song does it say the get marriaed? Taylor probelms could stop the relationship before anything actually gets serious. You can say it just fairytale problem but the truth of the matter is its a real life problem and happens to people.

    And you really don’t understand how playlist works?

  293. Jon
    August 18, 2010 at 8:21 am

    Actually, they probably just copy and paste from the main CC playlist.

    So then it’s NOT a list of songs they play?

  294. Stormy
    August 18, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Where in this song does it say the get marriaed? Taylor probelms could stop the relationship before anything actually gets serious. You can say it just fairytale problem but the truth of the matter is its a real life problem and happens to people.

    For a problem to stop a relationship before it gets started there would have to be a problem that isn’t overcome in 2.5 seconds.

    Jon:
    It is a list of the songs they play, but there is nothing, nor will anything you say create something, that indicates number of spins or which song is played most often.

  295. Dan E
    August 18, 2010 at 10:45 am

    The music video of “Mine” will premier on August 27th, 2010!

  296. Troy
    August 18, 2010 at 11:28 am

    @stormy actually it seems like she gradual gets over be gaurded.

    and the playlist thing its the 11 most played song. It doesn’t say the exact number on spins but it’s in the top 20 song being played by them. obvi.

  297. Jon
    August 18, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Jon:
    It is a list of the songs they play, but there is nothing, nor will anything you say create something, that indicates number of spins or which song is played most often.

    So then you DO think it’s a randomly ordered list, and it’s just a coincidence that the first 20 entries almost exactly match the 20 most-played singles on Billboard’s country singles airplay chart? Because when I asked that before, you kind of implied that you didn’t.

    Also, I don’t think you’ve explained yet why you claim to know how often “Mine” airs on KASE-FM. You previously said that you don’t listen to the station (you told us that no one in your office does, and that obviously includes you), and you also said that it sucks. Are you now telling us that you *do* spend a lot of time listening to the station? If so, please explain why you told us earlier that you don’t; if not, please explain how you can know how often a song is played on a station you don’t listen to.

    I’d really like to get to the bottom of this!

  298. Leeann Ward
    August 18, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    “I’d really like to get to the bottom of this.”

    Ha!

  299. Dan E
    August 20, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Here is the promo for Taylor’s music video of “Mine”.

    http://www.cmt.com/videos/misc/554331/mine-promo.jhtml?id=1646225

  300. Dan E
    August 27, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Here is the complete version of Taylor Swift’s “Mine” music video. It’s another job well done for Ms. Swift!
    http://www.cmt.com/videos/taylor-swift/556177/mine.jhtml

  301. Judy R.
    August 28, 2010 at 10:45 am

    This song is so good! The lyrics are so well-writen (as they are in every Taylor Swift song), the vocals are good (as Taylor’s vocals always have been), and the music video is breath-taking (as are all of her videos). Once again, Taylor Swift proves what an amazing singer/songwriter she is, and Blake Boldt comes out another poorly-writen “review” for another amazing song. Sorry Blake; writing reviews just isn’t your thing. Anyway, Way to go Taylor! :D

  302. Hayley
    August 28, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    I find amusing that some people are discussing if Taylor comes across as self indulgent. She’s a 20 year old pop star (of course she’s self indulgent). I personally have nothing against it. I’m a 21 year old self indulgent girl.

    I think is premature to say that she isn’t maturing.. (you only have listen to one song of this album). Or that her music isn’t going to evolve, there is no way to make that kind of predictions.

    To me Taylor seems like a thoughtful young woman who is just getting out of her teenage years.

    I enjoy her music and I think she’s very honest in her songs, she’s looking for that perfect love (that maybe doesn’t exist but she has to realize that on her own, like a lot of people do when they finally grow up).

    Maybe she hit the peak of her career but that doesn’t mean that she can’t still be a very successful artist.

    I’m looking forward to this new album to make my own conclusions.

  303. Clyde
    August 28, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Taylor Swift is not maturing, all her songs are either fairytales or about high school drama. She will haft to grow a lot more to start writing better more adult music. All her songs sound the same.

  304. Dan E
    August 28, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Clyde: “Mine” is neither a fairytale or a high school drama. Seriously, “haft”?

  305. Stormy
    August 28, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1646710/20100827/swift__taylor.jhtml

    This has an interesting review of how Mine and Teenage Dream are two sides of the “define yourself via a man” dream.

  306. Regina George
    September 3, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Tay is an amazing song writer and has almost single handedly done for her self what millions of people have tried and not succeeded at, or tried and merely not been AS good. She’s done it all with ellegance, grace, complete gratitude towards her fans and guess what? she’s barely 20. Her singing is mediocre but it’s def not bad. I mean if we want to complain about vocals why not start bitching at Jimmy Buffet or Kid Rock , how about Gary from Rasccal Flatts? even Hillary from Lady A can’t sing “American Honey” live, without going a little flat. I’ve been to Nashville, I’ve seen the scene, and I’m learning the industry. There is way more to an artist than vocals. Even without vocals she’s more creative, innovative and well rounded then half the stuff we see today. How many people even attempt to write their music let alone create massive hit’s doing so? almost none these days. That being said, this song sounds similar to her others but the lyrics are great, and it tells a relatable story from a unique perspective. It’s upbeat but it’s not any less country than Reba, Carrie or Darius therese days. or anyone else for that matter. give the girl a break. you cannot buy success. the chick has talent.

  307. Stormy
    September 3, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    How many people even attempt to write their music let alone create massive hit’s doing so?

    Really? Who DOESN’T write or co-write their own stuff? Even Carrie Underwood managed to get her fingerprints on that Undo It mess.

  308. Missy
    September 14, 2010 at 8:15 am

    I like Taylor Swift and I think she is really someone that younger girls can look up to. As for the “careless mans careful daughter” in the last part of the song she says she braced herself for the goodbye cause thats all she’s ever known. To me that means her father left her and in the video, it shows her mom and dad fighting and her dad leaving so it was kinda self explainatory to me. I think she is a great songwriter and singer. Nobody is perfect but I really like her.

  309. Timmy Ryan
    September 16, 2010 at 10:27 am

    I was flipping around the tube a few minutes ago, and accidentally clicked on the worst channel second only to the E! network, ( why is “ The Soup” still on there, pray tell?), and just saw the following two things:

    1. A segment where Barbie doll Katie Cook- who resembles all of the other mindless Barbie dolls that are on CMT, hosting a lil’ news segment about former “Nashville Star” contestant Danny Gokey, and about how he always brings
    “designer glasses wherever he goes”, and then continues on to hear him talking about
    “how he brings dozens of designer frames to match whatever outfit he’s wearing.” I’d expect to hear that statement out of Ricky Martin or Lance Bass’- if you catch my drift. Seriously, how did mainstream country music get this gay?
    2. Immediately following the lil’ news segment, I decided to force myself to listen and watch the horrible Taylor Swift, and her new song/video “Mine”. If you are a Taylor Swift fan , you had better now turn your computer off now………
    It might be the worst song I’ve ever heard vocally. Corky ( Chris Burke) from the show “Life goes on” , God bless him, can sing better than this girl. This song has soooo much auto tune, it’s embarrassing. It also tries, and fails miserably to tackle a more adult subject line, as in the lyrics:
    “And I remember that fight, two-thirty AM
    You said everything was slipping right out of our hands
    I ran out, crying, and you followed me out into the street”

    Lets face the hard, cold, truth here: The vast majority of her fans are between the ages of 8-14. Am I the only one that would be uncomfortable hearing a tween sing along to a song about being up at 2:30am having a fight with a guy? Shouldn’t 10-14 year olds be sleeping, as they have school in the morning?
    Also, anyone who still thinks she is solely writing her own songs must be high on crack. I will say that as a songwriter, the songs are PERFECTLY put together pieces of POP ( NOT country, mind you). And one of two things are going on: A. She is a songwriting genius, or B. there has been a team of brilliant songwriters that are getting paid off not to be credited. Not sure how to answer that?- read on! It is no secret around Nashville that her daddy
    (a multi millionaire stock broker) bought her career for her by paying the best songwriters to write with her and financially securing for her record contract.
    I actually feel bad for this girl, because like all the other stars who appealed to tweens in the past- she is quickly heading towards the “ where are they now” bin- and it’s going to hurt. Adding insult to injury, just like in all similar circumstances- I’m sure in the not so distant future, there will be some kind of lawsuit between Taylor and her daddy, with accusations of him mismanaging her funds, etc, just like every other child star that was bankrolled by their parents.
    Now back to the original question: “And one of two things are going on: A. She is a songwriting genius, or B. there has been a team of brilliant songwriters that are getting paid off not to be credited.” Unless you are brainless, it’s pretty easy to figure out which one is the correct answer!

    Mainstream country radio- as well as CMT better pull their head out of their asses. This once great country music of ours is turning into nothing but a contrived, autotuned- to- the- gill mess. The tradition, heritage, and pride of the genre is in serious jeopardy all to attract an extremely fickle audience ( 25-54 year old females, gay guys, and their tweenage daughters) while pushing away what used to be the “core”-which are blue collar men and women from nowhere America, who are just trying to scrape by; and for what? Yup, to make a quick buck. The average working man/woman tuning into a mainstream country station or tuning into to CMT, CAN’T identify with what is being called “Country” today, and the #’s show that they AREN’T tuning in anymore. Soon, this fickle demographic that mainstream country has targeted will dry up, and NO ONE will be left.

    thetimmyryan@live.com

  310. Stormy
    September 16, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    I would imagine you would like Taylor. You seem to be the only two left who didn’t get the memo that gay isn’t an insult.

  311. Matt Bjorke
    September 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    What does “being gay” have to do with Danny Gokey choosing to be ‘fashionable’?

    As for Taylor, there are many, many gay people who cannot stand her.

    As for gay fans of country music there are many, many them already, and many of them are ‘blue collar’ middle class folks, just like you.

  312. Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    @Stormy “I would imagine you would like Taylor. You seem to be the only two left who didn’t get the memo that gay isn’t an insult.”

    Are you trying to say Taylor Swift fans are more likely to use gay as an insult than any other singer? Because if you are you don’t really know Swift fan base are completly making an over genralization there.

    And what is with these people accussing Swift of having ghost writers or that her dad bought her the greatest song writers or a record deal where is this proof. The agurement that Swift had a record deal bought for her because her dad had money is the dumbest thing i’ve ever heard. Because her dad had money does that mean she shouldn’t be allowed to have a singing career? Did her dad pay country radio to play her music too and pay for people to buy her singles?

  313. Timmy Ryan
    September 16, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Troy, let me break this down to you: I’ve seen hags who have had 7 long islands on karaoke night that can sing better than this girl; yet somehow she won the “ CMA vocalist of the year award”- you don’t think that the right people weren’t bought off for that one? Yes, a career can be bought and paid for.
    As far as the “ghostwriters”- the proof are the PERFECTLY written/produced/arranged pieces of pop that so happen to be PERFECTLY aimed at 8-12 year old girls. There’s silent partners involved here, trust me. Singers that write their own songs can SING their own songs- as in keep in pitch. She can’t, and seems to be more concerned with covering it up with over the top theatrics and set pieces.

    I’ll tell you what irritated me about the “designer glasses” thing; we are in the midst of the worst economy in 50 years. Millions are out of work and struggling. And here you have the TV voice of “Country music” doing a piece on a former reality show contestant’s myriad of designer glasses. County used to be the voice of middle America, and the struggles that come with it. Now, it’s about designer frames, $600 designer jeans, women that look like cosmo models/Barbie dolls, guys with highlights in their hair and bleached teeth-almost all of whom can’t sing without the help of the industries best autotune machine. What used to have it’s finger on the pulse of the everyday man/woman has completely lost touch with it.

  314. Dan E
    September 16, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    I don’t trust you Timmy, I don’t trust you!

    Timmy: You must not be paying attention lately. She is nowhere close to being a part of the “Where are they now?” group. You can keep dreaming and maybe one day jump on the ship of reality.

  315. Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    @Timmy Ryan let me point out many flaws of this arguement

    ” I’ve seen hags who have had 7 long islands on karaoke night that can sing better than this girl”

    There tons of people that can sing better than Cheryl Cole but yet she still has gotten one of the biggest hits in the uk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMiy_UsrPDs. Britney Spears doesn’t have greatest voice either and she been able to get a grammy for her songs. Both of these singers came from poor famalies.

    “happen to be PERFECTLY aimed at 8-12 year old girls”

    Her target audience from what ive seen is more of 14-20

    “Singers that write their own songs can SING their own songs- as in keep in pitch.”

    Why do you think professional songwriters don’t sing their own material sometimes their voices just aren’t that great so they give it a person who can. There have been plenty have songwriters that sing their songs with their voice being thier main weakness.

    The real thing is that you have no proof to back up any of your statement your just speculating to try to de-value Taylor Swift at any cost.

  316. Stormy
    September 16, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Troy: No, I am saying that Taylor Swift already HAS used the word gay as an insult.

  317. Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    even if she did use it as insult does that mean that people that like her would use it as insult. Because you cleary said Timmy Ryan would like her because she uses gay as and insult. Just because a person has simialr view on something like an insult wouldn’t mean they like the singer. It just doesn’t make any sense

    I take it your refering to Picture to Burn right.
    the line thats fine ill tell mine that your gay. If he did have any interest of dating her friends her freinds wont have any interest in him because they will think he likes guys and thats not really an insult.

  318. Timmy Ryan
    September 16, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    “There have been plenty have songwriters that sing their songs with their voice being their main weakness.”
    Yup, and none of them are given “ Female vocalist of the year awards” because of it. After the CMA’s shamelessly gave her that award, that should have tipped anyone off who has a brain cell that the TS machine is all a sham, bought and paid for, etc. Once again, as a producer/songwriter I am giving credit to the songs. They are brilliant as pop songs, as in Lieber and Stoller/Tin Pan Alley good. Either there’s a team of brilliant ghostwriters writing her songs, or she alone is as good as a team of brilliant ghostwriters. Considering the machine behind TS- which one is more likely?
    I’m not devaluing her for the purpose of devaluing her. Just telling you what you secretly already know, and don’t want to hear.

  319. Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    @Timmy Ryan First you have to remeber the awards are using live vocals they are using studio vocals. Second it’s not always given the artist that has the biggest vocal range. Her vocals have a lot of emotion in them and on the studio tracks has. The award itself isn’t who the best singer there are enterainer values that go into being the top vocalist which why she won the award.

    I’m glad you think Taylor is so talented to be as good as a team of brilliant song writers.

  320. Timmy Ryan
    September 16, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Troy, you’re really making yourself look bad. I suspect you’re a part of her blogging team? TS is not a musical genius. She doesn’t write her own music, this will all come out someday when one of the writers getting paid off gets wronged.
    And by your definition, the CMA Female Vocalist of the year award should just start going to whoever has the best auto tune machine in the studio.
    If you’re name wasn’t a guys name, I’d think you were a 13 year old girl.

  321. Stormy
    September 16, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 3:34 pm Permalink @Timmy Ryan First you have to remeber the awards are using live vocals

    And?

  322. Matt Bjorke
    September 16, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Timmy,

    I’ll use a tactic used in another post in this blog, bring cited facts from somewhere that supports your idea that Taylor Swift doesn’t write her own songs. She DID have co-writers in the past (Liz Roze has said that she just ‘cleaned up’ some stuff but that the songs are largely Taylors). She’s not a ‘sit in the room’ and get credit type of person.

    As for winning all those awards, the industry rewarded her more for what she’s done for it (broadened it’s exposure) than for her actual vocal talent. Should the ‘powers that be’ have given her the vocalist award? Probably not but it is just an award. Her label is a small label that couldn’t possibly have ‘bought’ enough CMA votes to get her the award. I’m sure nobody with any moral scruples (and most voting members of CMA I think do have morals) would’ve allowed themselves to be ‘bought’ like you ascertain.

    This is all coming from somebody who is far from a huge Taylor fan (although my teenage niece is).

  323. Jon
    September 16, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    She doesn’t write her own music, this will all come out someday when one of the writers getting paid off gets wronged.

    *facepalm*

  324. Chris N.
    September 16, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    I second that facepalm.

  325. Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    #Stormy it should have been aren’t using live vocals. sorry for the confusion.

  326. Stormy
    September 16, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    If that’s what the vocals sound like AFTER studio polishing, I’m scared.

  327. Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    I’m confused right now. How could you be scared you heard her live vocals before and youve heard her album vocals before.

  328. Stormy
    September 16, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    But you just said the awards shows weren’t live vocals. If it gets worse than that, my cat may never forgive me.

  329. Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    No I was saying that the people that bote on the award for top female vocalist aren’t listening to Taylor when she singing live their listening to her on the studio version.

  330. Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    vote*

  331. Stormy
    September 16, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Okay, I guess tat makes sens. Except her clean vocals are good either.

  332. Troy
    September 16, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    @Stormy Except that your opinon and the people that voted gave thier opinon and they picked her.

    While you don’t believe I and many others think there is alot of emotion in her voice when she sings and that makes up for her lack of techincal vocal talent.

  333. Stormy
    September 17, 2010 at 7:54 am

    I don’t think you can make up for that much lack of vocal talent.

  334. Troy
    September 17, 2010 at 8:58 am

    Appranetly the people that voted for her thought it did.

  335. Michael
    September 17, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Stormy is exactly right. That is sure an interesting way to describe the voice of Taylor Swift “lack of technical talent”? Why don’t you just say awful, out of key voice – that would be much more accurate! They use auto tune in the studio to try and mask her voice so that is the difference from her hideous live performances.

    Here is the bottom line: Taylor Swift is a teen star who will fall like a brick soon as she enters her twenties and has people listening to her that actually appreciate vocal talent. Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber and other teens are fads just like David Cassidy was a fad in the seventies.

    Finally, for those that claim Taylor Swift is such a great role model that is really questionable. I don’t call a teen girl dating around in the past with an older man, John Mayer, this little saint.

  336. Troy
    September 17, 2010 at 9:42 am

    “Here is the bottom line: Taylor Swift is a teen star who will fall like a brick soon as she enters her twenties and has people listening to her that actually appreciate vocal talent.”

    I never get when people say that because shes a teenager when she came out her carear will fail in longrun. There are plenty of singers that started and sold their music to teenagers that are still around music today. And most that don’t make music anymore its by choice they have other things the are doing right now and aren’t interested in a singing carear.

    Same thing was said about Britney Spears, Kylie Mingoue a now look both of have sold millions of albums. With Kylie having a number one album in 4 different decades. Both lack vocal techincal talent as well. So your point that her singing career will fail base on teens moving on really has no value.

  337. Ariadne
    October 20, 2010 at 3:52 am

    The man is careless because of his broken relationships (parents’ mistakes) and the rebellion is to herself: Someone who was always one foot out of the relationship was suddenly all in.

    That is how she became careful. By watching her father’s careless mistakes.

    I thought it was obvious. Maybe not.

  338. Vance
    October 26, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    This is nothing new and typical Taylor Swift material. The subject matter is still superficial and her vocal inability is still as apparent as always. I can’t wait to hear just how badly she will destroy her song when she performs it live.

  339. Olivia
    October 28, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    I don’t care what any of you say about Taylor’s music it speaks to me and i know it speaks to many other people out there so why don’t you get a life and stop criticizing!

  340. VoiceOfReason
    November 13, 2010 at 4:06 am

    Okay, over a million copies of her album has dropped the first damn week if that’s not a damn great PR team I dont know what the hell is jebus rice!”Mine”the number #1 single to her a album granted is not a bad song nor a great song it’s middle and sounds exactly like same ole Taylor not much new but that song grows on ya. With that said any album with mind numbing PR behind and the success that Taylor has and the fan base she has. This girl could record the phone book and sell a million are so copies she got a PR well oiled machine behind good grief!. Big Machine Records has a diamond mine with Taylor yeah they have Rascal Flatts and others but I’ll be damn if Taylor aint carring that young company on her tiny back.

  341. norman
    December 29, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    I think this is the BEST song ever. The lyrics are amazing and it’s catchy. I think the line “you are the best thing, that’s ever been MINE” is amazing. it gives me think of my wife and it’s such a happy feeling

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