Sara Evans Files Restraining Order; Texas Tornadoes Release New Album; Free Cadillac Sky Download

Brody Vercher | March 1st, 2010

  1. Kelly
    March 1, 2010 at 11:43 am

    I tend to agree that Parsons doesnt deserve HoF enshrinement, but Alden’s belittling of Parsons’ contributions and artistic merit is a bit odd to me. To say that Parsons only wrote a handful of decent songs is simply wrong. One listen to the GP Rhino reissue will prove that (unless were talking about one of those massive, fake incredible hulk hands that you can buy Toys R Us)

  2. Jon
    March 1, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    To say that Parsons only wrote a handful of decent songs is simply wrong. One listen to the GP Rhino reissue will prove that…

    It will to those looking to support a proposition they already believe. To others, not so much.

    I wonder whether Jamie mentioned the fact that the Osborne Brothers won the CMA’s Vocal Group award years ago; I’m guessing that he did – he certainly knows it to be so – and that it went over the writer’s head.

  3. Thomas
    March 1, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    …sara evans next release is going to be a cover of d.i.v.o.r.c.e instead of the original project r.e.s.t.r.a.i.n.i.n.g. o.r.d.e.r. which sounded a little too messy.

  4. Saving Country Music
    March 1, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    I couldn’t disagree with Grant Aldean more. The general public knows Gram more through his associations with California country: The Byrds, influencing the formation of The Eagles, Linda Ronstadt, than they do with Emmylou. It’s only core country fans and Gram fans that understand that connection.

    How many millions of baby boomers that Merle Haggard was scaring away from country, got turned back on to country by Gram? How about the whole influence that Gram had on the Rolling Stones, inspiring records like Sticky Fingers and Let it Bleed? We wouldn’t have every single country artist running “Dead Flowers” into the ground right now if it wasn’t for Gram.

    Sure he may have not had a lot of hits, but he has a much bigger body of work than most people know. Ever heard of the International Submarine Band?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3cToJxub3c

    His influence cannot be understated. But Johns right, wasted breath.

  5. Kelly
    March 1, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    “It will to those looking to support a proposition they already believe. To others, not so much.”

    Jon, your comment could also be applied to Alden’s “handful of decent songs” sentiment. I didnt (and still dont) feel the need to be more specific or analytical since Alden provided nothing more than basic statements of indifference towards Parsons while attemtping to make a point.

  6. Steve M.
    March 1, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Why is popularity a prerequisite anyways for a Hall of Fame? Under that theory, the pro football hall of fame would have all quarterbacks and running backs with no offensive linemen. Influence should count for far more-John Denver may have had more hits, but did he actually influence anyone or their music? Gram Parsons influenced an entire movement.

  7. Stormy
    March 1, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Aw, man–next Grant is going to be doggin my attempt to get Peter Green into the Rock and Roll HOF.

  8. Jon
    March 1, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Yeah, Parsons influenced an entire movement – the movement of rock guys who wanted and/or want to believe that wanting to play and sing country was or is the same as actually playing and singing country, and who would like to take the absence of any real connection to the country music heritage and community and industry as a token of country music authenticity. Why that’s supposed to be a clinching argument in favor of inducting him into the Country Music Hall of Fame is beyond me. The folks who did the actual heavy lifting as far as bringing that California country-rock stuff under the big country tent and actually making something out of it were folks like Emmylou Harris and Bernie Leadon and Chris Hillman, all of whom had the misfortune of not dying a dramatic rock’n’roll death and creating thereby a legend whose existence isn’t dependent on an assessment of the facts.

    Kelly, Grant’s “handful of decent songs” line is embedded in a longer argument based on a number of propositions (e.g., lack of country airplay, lack of influence on country artists, lack of connection to the country music industry etc.) that make the case for Parsons not being a strong Hall of Fame candidate; your post is nothing more than a statement about your taste for his songs.

  9. Steve Harvey
    March 1, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    no better known than Peter Green.
    No better known than one of the finest blues-rock guitar players that Britain’s ever produced?

  10. Kelly
    March 1, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Jon, I was adressing specifically that point,regardless of it being a part of a larger list. I was merely expressing my disagreement with the number of “decent” songs Alden claims Parsons wrote. I feel like I made that clear the first time around, so you’re right, thats what I was saying, since that what I said.

    As I said, I cant say that I think Parsons should be in the Hall, and some of those other points Alden made were fine as they pertain to enshrinement, even if a bit narrow and evidence of a small-picture mentality on Alden’s end.

  11. nm
    March 1, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Why is popularity a prerequisite anyways for a Hall of Fame?

    Because people have to be voted in.

  12. CB
    March 1, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    I completely agree… if it wasn’t for Emmylou, no one would even know Gram Parsons existed.

  13. Rick
    March 1, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    Saving Country Music said: “How many millions of baby boomers that Merle Haggard was scaring away from country, got turned back on to country by Gram?”

    Are you referring to Merle’s great patriotic songs like “Okie From Muskogee” and “The Fightin’ Side of Me” that scared away all those smelly, pot smoking, long haired, anti-Vietnam war protesting, hippie miscreants that became and gave birth to a generation of Obamavoter “useful idiots”? I know Gram was a poster boy for such counter culture twerps, but I don’t see how his “Cosmic American” music led anyone to getting into real country music? Into what became the Americana genre absolutely, but real country music? Naw…

    I like Rawhide & Velvet’s take on much of the Red Dirt music scene. We differ when she still finds music of actual merit residing there.

    Wow, the Grascals are getting delusional! Had Jamie just stepped off Willie Nelson’s bus when he made that comment? Crikey!

  14. Steve M.
    March 1, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    So under this theory that popularity alone should be the deciding factor for Hall of Fames, should we then think Abba, Phil Collins or Celine Dion are more worthy then the Ramones or Velvet Underground?

  15. stormy
    March 1, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Okay, I wasn’t there (this song was relased 2 years before I was born), but why isn’t this country exactly?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9_k1ypXStQ

  16. Saving Country Music
    March 1, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Rick,

    I was referring exactly to Merle’s great patriotic songs like “Okie From Muskogee” and “The Fightin’ Side of Me” that scared away all those smelly, pot smoking, long haired, anti-Vietnam war protesting, hippie miscreants.

    And you helped me prove my point, which is that dumb political leanings isolated many people from great country music back in the late 60’s and early 70’s, on both sides of the isle.

    With a few exceptions (Merle, Bobby Bare to name a few) the only REAL country music going on in the late 60’s, early 70’s was going on in California with people like Gram. As Nashville was a wash in strings and choruses, Cali was keeping the steel guitar alive. Jerry Garcia worked as a steel guitar set musician, and The Grateful Dead put out one of the best country albums in 1971, Workingman’s Dead. You know Mike Nesmith, the dude from The Monkees with the toboggan? He started his own country music label and produced albums from people like Texas songwriter Steve Fromholz. Gram was playing the Armadillo World Headquarters while Willie Nelson was still living at Ridgetop in Nashville.

    The California country musicians blazed a trail for the Outlaws, because since they were signed to rock labels, they had creative freedom of their music. California is where Outlaw country lived before the Dripping Springs reunion.

    One of the reasons that the Outlaw scene created so much new and creative music was because it was a collaboration of rednecks and hippies. They worked together to build a rich culture instead of using their collusive culture to fight each other.

    There has been a long lived bias against California-based country artists. Rose Maddox is another good example. But like I said before, Jon is right, it’s wasted breath. If you don’t want to discover a whole other rich side of country music, one that was NOT controlled by the industry and the Chet Atkins / Acuff Rose monopoly, then it’s your loss.

  17. waynoe
    March 1, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    Man, Sara Evans has issues.

  18. Steve M.
    March 1, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Considering she has married Jay Barker, the QB of the 1992 Alabama Crimson Tide national championship team, she has turned out ok.

  19. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 8:05 am

    So under this theory that popularity alone should be the deciding factor for Hall of Fames, should we then think Abba, Phil Collins or Celine Dion are more worthy then the Ramones or Velvet Underground?

    In the first place, the “alone” part of “popularity alone” is your invention. In the second place, we’re talking about the Country Music Hall of Fame; I don’t see why the Ramones or the Velvet Underground would be any more worthy of induction there than the others. What could be more stupid than putting an argument about what kinds of rock and pop you like in a conversation about country music?!

  20. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 8:07 am

    With a few exceptions (Merle, Bobby Bare to name a few) the only REAL country music going on in the late 60’s, early 70’s was going on in California with people like Gram.

    Right. Because George Jones, Tammy Wynette, Loretta Lynn, Charley Pride, et. al. weren’t “REAL country music,” while the Flying Burrito Brothers were. Sheesh.

  21. Steve M.
    March 2, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Because in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, more consideration is given to the influence of an artist and band then in the country hall of fame, and because I do think that a lasting influence is more important then chart popularity at any time. Or is just too stupid for you?

  22. nm
    March 2, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    So the influence of Gram Parsons on a bunch of country-rockers ought to be considered a reason to put him into the Country Music HoF? Shouldn’t that be a reason to put him into the Rock HoF?

  23. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Dude, what’s stupid is talking about inducting the Velvet Underground into the Country Music Hall of Fame! And if that’s not what you’re talking about, why bring them up?

  24. sam (sam)
    March 2, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Why is “lasting influence” more important “then chart popularity at any time?” I could see both being quite important, but not sure why one would be more important than the other.

  25. stormy
    March 2, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    When people talk about inducting Ricky Skaggs into the country HOF they mention that he brought back the traditional sound. That’s bull. Emmylou Harris was far enough ahead of him to give him a start in her band. Emmylou got a lot of her traditional sound from Gram.

  26. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    When people talk about inducting Ricky Skaggs into the country HOF they mention that he brought back the traditional sound.

    Well, no, they don’t, though I can see how someone unfamiliar with country music history might miss the distinction between “bringing back the traditional sound” (which was never really gone) and “pioneering neo-traditionalism,” which was something new (the “neo” there is a clue).

    Emmylou Harris was far enough ahead of him to give him a start in her band.

    Well, no, she didn’t “give him a start in her band,” she hired him into her band. Again, someone familiar with country music would know that Skaggs’ was recording hard-core Stanley style bluegrass around the time that Emmylou was just getting started with Parsons, and that he was a veteran sideman, session player, producer and bandleader for close to a decade before she hired him – and that, as she has said (and this is a direcdt quote), “I learned an incredible amount from him….I benefited a great deal from having Ricky in the band.”

    With all that being said, it is true that Harris enjoyed earlier success in mainstream country than Skaggs did, and that she deserves credit for that. But, of course, she’s already in the Hall of Fame, isn’t she? So you can’t exactly say that her contribution’s not been acknowledged.

    Emmylou got a lot of her traditional sound from Gram.

    Well, no. Because he didn’t have a traditional sound. He had a slack, sloppy, self-indulgent sound that was, by and large, the antithesis of the sound that Harris developed on her own. There’s no doubt that he was a great inspiration to her – she’s said so many times – but inspiration and actual musical influence can be two distinct things, and the proof of this here pudding is in the listening.

  27. Steve M.
    March 2, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    Because it was an allusion-I never suggested inducting the VU into the Country Hall of Fame. Now you’re just being purposely obtuse.

  28. Chris N.
    March 2, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Sometimes Jon just likes to argue, so you can’t assume he’ll infer what you imply. Try this:

    “So under this theory that popularity alone should be the deciding factor for Hall of Fames, should we then think Abba, Phil Collins or Celine Dion are more worthy OF INCLUSION INTO THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME then the Ramones or Velvet Underground?”

  29. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    But what’s the point of alluding to some other genre’s Hall of Fame inductions? Especially when they’re no less controversial in their own world? Or are you arguing that all of the Rock Hall’s inductees are there for reasons universally acknowledged as unimpeachable? It all seems like a distraction, tossed up to draw attention away from the facts Grant adduced to explain his skepticism about inducting Parsons into the Country (not Rock) Hall of Fame.

  30. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    And while I’m at it, let me point out again that no one has argued that popularity alone is or should be sufficient to earn induction into the Country Hall. That’s a red herring farmed by Steve M. Although it is fair to also point out that sneering at popularity is a nearly infallible sign that the perp is bringing historically non-country values into the country context.

  31. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    And, by the way, don’t get me wrong, I won’t complain about seeing Gram Parsons in the Country Music Hall of Fame, as long as folks like Chris Hillman on the one hand and Shania Twain on the other get in there first.

  32. Steve M.
    March 2, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Given that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a musical Hall of Fame, it seemed more useful comparison the say the controversy over Phil Rizzuto induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame, when he was elected by the Veterans Committee not so much for his stats but his “influence” over all the World Series Yankee teams of the 40s and 50s.

  33. stormy
    March 2, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    I can see Chris Hillman but why would Shania be inducted? Just this year Kara Dioguardi praised her pop writing skills and I only hear her songs on Adult Contemporary stations. In another 20 years will people even remember Shania was supposed to be country?

  34. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    @Steve M. Getting further away from discussing the Country Music Hall of Fame doesn’t make much sense. Grant Alden addressed the merits – or lack thereof – of a Parsons induction into the Country Music Hall of Fame; it would appear you’re either unwilling or unable to actually discuss them yourself.

  35. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    In another 20 years will people even remember Shania was supposed to be country?

    Predicting the future is always a risky business, but the answer is “probably.” I mean, people remember that Patsy Cline was supposed to be country, don’t they?

  36. Steve M.
    March 2, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Somehow I think that twenty years what pops into people’s minds about Shania Twain is her body, rather then the music. Fair? Probably not, but when you sell sex so blatantly, it is a danger.

  37. Michelle
    March 2, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    She is gorgeous and I liked most of her stuff, but her voice was a little weak live.

  38. stormy
    March 2, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    But Patsy Cline did not remix her cds so that much of the music that still gets played in public IS pop.

  39. Troy
    March 2, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    @Steve M. “Shania Twain is her body, rather then the music.”

  40. sam (sam)
    March 2, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Steve M says “I think that twenty years what pops into people’s minds about Shania Twain is her body, rather then the music.”

    That may be so, but at least in 20 years Shania will quite possibly be remembered by a large audience, which is more than can be said about Gram Parsons. Even today, I suspect he has very little name recognition. I wonder how many country fans could identify his music. He may be influential in some corners, but his influence does not seem to appear on many, if any, country hits of the last 20 years.

    I don’t say that to mock Parsons. One need not be famous to be important. Parsons had talent worthy of respect. But I always find it interesting to hear comments such as “In 20 Years {Taylor Swift, Shania, whomever] will be forgotten” as a knock on said artist being made by people who champion artists who already have been forgotten. Apparently, “being forgotten in 20 years after one’s last hit” is something that discredits the artists we dislike but does not discredit the artists we do like.

    I am not suggesting that Steve M is doing this but I am noting that this sort of attitude does appear from time to time.

  41. Troy
    March 2, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    @Steve M. “Shania Twain is her body, rather then the music.”

    I think she had enough memorable songs not to just me remembered as a sex symbol like your still the one and from this moment it on. Its not like she did the sex symbol thing like Britney Spears did.

  42. Michelle
    March 2, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    From This Moment On is an absolutely beautiful song. I get chills thinking about it!

  43. stormy
    March 2, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Sam: Gram imspired The Eagles and Mellencamp, which means that his music is ALL OVER every singer like Tim McGraw, Kenny Chesney, Jason Aldean etc, for all that they likely don’t realize it.

  44. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    I always find it interesting to hear comments such as “In 20 Years {Taylor Swift, Shania, whomever] will be forgotten” as a knock on said artist being made by people who champion artists who already have been forgotten. Apparently, “being forgotten in 20 years after one’s last hit” is something that discredits the artists we dislike but does not discredit the artists we do like.

    Good point. I also suspect that people who say things like “Twain will only be remembered for her body” are, in fact, people who only remember her for her body. Kinda like the people who complain about her being played on pop radio – which they presumably know from listening to pop radio. Apparently it’s ok for them but not for anyone else.

    I don’t think Twain’s a shoo-in for the Hall by any means – in fact, I think she’ll be a tough sell if she doesn’t come back for a second round career – but on the other hand, neither is Parsons. Which (again), is what we were talking about.

  45. Steve M.
    March 2, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    I actually think that 20 years from now that while Gram Parsons won’t be remembered by the general public (same as today), his music will still be played by some people because it still will be damn good, while Twain’s will suffer by the passage of time. Like the hair bands of the ’80s or Billy Ray Cryus’ mullet.

  46. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    Gram imspired The Eagles and Mellencamp, which means that his music is ALL OVER every singer like Tim McGraw, Kenny Chesney, Jason Aldean

    Hard to say which is more wrong there – the premise or the conclusion.

    Suggested reading for those who would like to actually learn something about the California country-rock scene of the late 60s/early 70s: John Einarson’s _Desperados: The Roots Of Country Rock_. A fine piece of work.

  47. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    So having your music played by “some people” after you’re dead is sufficient grounds to put you in a Hall of Fame? Seems to me you’re setting the bar pretty low there, Steve M.

  48. Steve M.
    March 2, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Yes, because mass consumption alone determines quality Jon. Give that rational, you must consider McDonald’s your preferred choice of fine dining.

  49. sam (sam)
    March 2, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Stormy : You make a pretty good point: I realize Parsons is respected by many and he even influenced them too. But it seems a long way from Gram Parsons to Jason Aldean to me. It seems a long enough ways from the Eagles to Jason Aldean to me, too. Getting even further along to Parsons seems like a lengthy trip.

    Steve M : Though I hate to predict the future, I don’t doubt you that in 20 years there is a good chance Gram Parsons will be played by some (though not the general public).

    Will Twain suffer the passage of time? Quite possibly. Though she still may be played by some people (perhaps for reasons of nostalgia, perhaps some of her songs will stand the test of time). We’ll have to wait to find out.

    How should we evaluate artists who were very popular in their day but seem dated very fast? Perhaps we should criticize them because they don’t “stand the test of time,” but on the other hand, perhaps we should praise them for being beloved in their day, and not just by a few, but by many. I know I cringe at some of the music (and movies and TV) shows that I once loved, but that doesn’t change the fact that such music, movies, TV brought me great joy back in the day.

    As for Billy Ray’s mullet: Some of the strangest fashion trends go away and then resurface in 20 years. I hope I am wrong, but it could be that mullets will be popular in 2030. They were popular once, they could be again! The future could be as bad as the past.

  50. Steve M.
    March 2, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    Sam,
    We can only shudder at the thought of a mullet comeback. We can only hope we learn from the mistakes of the past.

  51. Troy
    March 2, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    @Steve M. how is this revelation “Yes, because mass consumption alone determines quality Jon. Give that rational, you must consider McDonald’s your preferred choice of fine dining.”

    I don’t think McDonald has ever claim to be to be fine dining. Maybe if you said the preferred fast food. Were talking into specifically country music not all music. Epically since most fine dinning place cost more and are limited to people. Now all an artist has to do to make themselves available to the country is have their music on itunes.

    Maybe a better comparison would be do movies like The Titantic and Avatar deserve to be considered as some of the best movies because they are the best selling movies of all time.

    The whole thing with mass consummation is if you sell 20 million albums that means there is 20 million people that think that person is talented so saying sales doesn’t mean anything your basically say my taste is better than those million people. Sales isn’t the only thing to measure quality but it can me an indicator of it especially if your the best seller of that time.

  52. Jon
    March 2, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    @Steve M. With all due respect, you seem to have a real predilection for red herring, as evidenced by your persistent insertion of “alone” into various statements. No one said that popularity alone is the criterion for induction into the Country Music Hall of Fame; no one’s said that popularity alone is the criterion for determining where to find a good meal. Trying to have a discussion with someone who insists on talking instead to a third party of his own invention isn’t really an enjoyable way to pass the time.

    Grant Alden made a fairly precise case for why Gram Parsons is a poor candidate for induction into the Country Music Hall of Fame. It’s sad but perhaps telling that none of the Parsons advocates have directly addressed what Grant had to say.

  53. Steve M.
    March 2, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    Fine. And while you insisting on literalism shows a persistent inability to place arguments into any sort of bigger context, indicating either a lack of imaginative or critical thinking skills.

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