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	<title>Comments on: Roots Watch: Country Icons and Family Legacies</title>
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		<title>By: luckyoldsun</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-12019</link>
		<dc:creator>luckyoldsun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.engine145.com/?p=18259#comment-12019</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s great that someone of your great brilliance is looking to pick a fight with me. Maybe if we ever meet, you can take a swing at me. I&#039;d be honored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s great that someone of your great brilliance is looking to pick a fight with me. Maybe if we ever meet, you can take a swing at me. I&#8217;d be honored.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-11981</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 01:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.engine145.com/?p=18259#comment-11981</guid>
		<description>Someone&#039;s got a bad case of don&#039;t bother me with the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone&#8217;s got a bad case of don&#8217;t bother me with the facts.</p>
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		<title>By: luckyoldsun</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-11907</link>
		<dc:creator>luckyoldsun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.engine145.com/?p=18259#comment-11907</guid>
		<description>Well, I don&#039;t claim to know the secret. But I don&#039;t think that lack of marketing effort can be blamed for what happened with Waylon at the end. Maybe it was the wrong effort.

Funny thing is, the first few albums that Cash did with Rick Rubin did not actually sell very well nationally--even though they got a lot of national media attention-- (especially the first one.). I remember reading an article that the third American album might be the last one, with Cash saying that he understands that and can&#039;t blame anybody. 

Then, the whole thing clicked--to the point that it seems to me Cash is now up there with Crosby, Armstrong, Cole, Sinatra, Elvis as recognized icons of 20th-Century male popular singing--even if he was never quite at that level during his life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I don&#8217;t claim to know the secret. But I don&#8217;t think that lack of marketing effort can be blamed for what happened with Waylon at the end. Maybe it was the wrong effort.</p>
<p>Funny thing is, the first few albums that Cash did with Rick Rubin did not actually sell very well nationally&#8211;even though they got a lot of national media attention&#8211; (especially the first one.). I remember reading an article that the third American album might be the last one, with Cash saying that he understands that and can&#8217;t blame anybody. </p>
<p>Then, the whole thing clicked&#8211;to the point that it seems to me Cash is now up there with Crosby, Armstrong, Cole, Sinatra, Elvis as recognized icons of 20th-Century male popular singing&#8211;even if he was never quite at that level during his life.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Mazor</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-11887</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Mazor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Dec 2011 12:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.engine145.com/?p=18259#comment-11887</guid>
		<description>Billboard ads have very little to do with the image reshaping, audience retargeting, new sonic and sound choices that were applied to Cash in his last decade.  It&#039;s just not the same thing.  Nor is a &quot;push&quot; for one album.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Billboard ads have very little to do with the image reshaping, audience retargeting, new sonic and sound choices that were applied to Cash in his last decade.  It&#8217;s just not the same thing.  Nor is a &#8220;push&#8221; for one album.</p>
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		<title>By: luckyoldsun</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-11827</link>
		<dc:creator>luckyoldsun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Dec 2011 00:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.engine145.com/?p=18259#comment-11827</guid>
		<description>I think there was a marketing push for Waylon in the &#039;90s. I remember when he returned to RCA and they put out Waymore&#039;s Blues, Part 2--almost all original songs and most of them--like the title song, &quot;Wild One&quot; and &quot;old Timer&quot;--of high quality and sung with real passion. They placed articles and advertisements in Billboard. I&#039;m pretty sure he went on Letterman. And then the album came out and it sank like an anvil. (And then RCA once again forgot that he existed.)

I don&#039;t know who suffered more in their final years--Cash or Waylon--but Cash at least seemed to be happy that he was experiencing a public resurgence. Waylon seemed to be angry and bitter at the end--which was especially sad, considering that with the &quot;Highwaymen,&quot; Waylon was the funny, light-hearted one who got the audience in a good mood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there was a marketing push for Waylon in the &#8217;90s. I remember when he returned to RCA and they put out Waymore&#8217;s Blues, Part 2&#8211;almost all original songs and most of them&#8211;like the title song, &#8220;Wild One&#8221; and &#8220;old Timer&#8221;&#8211;of high quality and sung with real passion. They placed articles and advertisements in Billboard. I&#8217;m pretty sure he went on Letterman. And then the album came out and it sank like an anvil. (And then RCA once again forgot that he existed.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know who suffered more in their final years&#8211;Cash or Waylon&#8211;but Cash at least seemed to be happy that he was experiencing a public resurgence. Waylon seemed to be angry and bitter at the end&#8211;which was especially sad, considering that with the &#8220;Highwaymen,&#8221; Waylon was the funny, light-hearted one who got the audience in a good mood.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Mazor</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-11821</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Mazor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 23:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.engine145.com/?p=18259#comment-11821</guid>
		<description>We do know, for one self-evident thing, that neither Cash nor Jennings primarily sang songs they wrote themselves--ever. And there was nothing new about Waylon singing some pop/rock  songs in his mix, at any point form the 50s on. 

In a sense, Waylon was re-posititoned as a different, black leather punkier sort of singer when the Outlaw trope happened in the 70s. I never believed that it was all that much more than a change in marketing and venue direction--with some, just some change in arrangements.  And basically, that was what was done with Cash by Rubin in the 90s--at a different time, and with a different set of now chic writers and songs. 

As Jon and nm are suggesting, there never was that sort of concerted, audience targeting  late stage marketing and positioning push with Waylon.  But he&#039;d already&#039;d had several before.  (Folk Country King anyone?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We do know, for one self-evident thing, that neither Cash nor Jennings primarily sang songs they wrote themselves&#8211;ever. And there was nothing new about Waylon singing some pop/rock  songs in his mix, at any point form the 50s on. </p>
<p>In a sense, Waylon was re-posititoned as a different, black leather punkier sort of singer when the Outlaw trope happened in the 70s. I never believed that it was all that much more than a change in marketing and venue direction&#8211;with some, just some change in arrangements.  And basically, that was what was done with Cash by Rubin in the 90s&#8211;at a different time, and with a different set of now chic writers and songs. </p>
<p>As Jon and nm are suggesting, there never was that sort of concerted, audience targeting  late stage marketing and positioning push with Waylon.  But he&#8217;d already&#8217;d had several before.  (Folk Country King anyone?)</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-11764</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 15:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Look, you dished up a contrast between the way &quot;the market&quot; responded to Jennings and to Cash, and NM pointed out that the difference lay in that part of &quot;the market&quot; made up of a new audience of younger listeners.  

And saying that you believe that Jennings &quot;tried to do just what Cash did&quot; is the same as saying someone&#039;s seriously imperceptive - either him or you.  Because someone would have to be seriously imperceptive to think that Don Was is just the same as Rick Rubin, or that Paul Simon is just the same as Trent Reznor.  Of course, someone would also have to be seriously imperceptive to argue in one breath that Jennings was doing &quot;mostly self-written material&quot; where Cash wasn&#039;t and in the next that he &quot;tried to do just what Cash did,&quot; but there&#039;s only one candidate for the title there.

Hearing what people think about music - what they like, what they don&#039;t like, why they like or don&#039;t like it, what role it plays in their lives, and so on - is usually interesting.  Hearing comments on the business, the creative process and the motivations of artists from anonymous commentators who obviously know nothing first-hand about any of those things, not so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, you dished up a contrast between the way &#8220;the market&#8221; responded to Jennings and to Cash, and NM pointed out that the difference lay in that part of &#8220;the market&#8221; made up of a new audience of younger listeners.  </p>
<p>And saying that you believe that Jennings &#8220;tried to do just what Cash did&#8221; is the same as saying someone&#8217;s seriously imperceptive &#8211; either him or you.  Because someone would have to be seriously imperceptive to think that Don Was is just the same as Rick Rubin, or that Paul Simon is just the same as Trent Reznor.  Of course, someone would also have to be seriously imperceptive to argue in one breath that Jennings was doing &#8220;mostly self-written material&#8221; where Cash wasn&#8217;t and in the next that he &#8220;tried to do just what Cash did,&#8221; but there&#8217;s only one candidate for the title there.</p>
<p>Hearing what people think about music &#8211; what they like, what they don&#8217;t like, why they like or don&#8217;t like it, what role it plays in their lives, and so on &#8211; is usually interesting.  Hearing comments on the business, the creative process and the motivations of artists from anonymous commentators who obviously know nothing first-hand about any of those things, not so much.</p>
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		<title>By: luckyoldsun</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-11690</link>
		<dc:creator>luckyoldsun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 04:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.engine145.com/?p=18259#comment-11690</guid>
		<description>By &quot;the market&quot; I mean just about ANY audience. Waylon&#039;s &#039;90s albums were DOA, commercially. I think it was sad--because Waylon obviously put a lot of effort into them and they were actually quite good.

And I think Waylon tried to do just what Cash did. He used producers like Don Was and recorded songs by Paul Simon, Mick Jagger etc.--in addition to his own material.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By &#8220;the market&#8221; I mean just about ANY audience. Waylon&#8217;s &#8217;90s albums were DOA, commercially. I think it was sad&#8211;because Waylon obviously put a lot of effort into them and they were actually quite good.</p>
<p>And I think Waylon tried to do just what Cash did. He used producers like Don Was and recorded songs by Paul Simon, Mick Jagger etc.&#8211;in addition to his own material.</p>
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		<title>By: nm</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-11641</link>
		<dc:creator>nm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.engine145.com/?p=18259#comment-11641</guid>
		<description>If by &quot;the market&quot; you mean &quot;a new audience of younger listeners,&quot; then I&#039;d say that they embraced Cash because he was doing something new, including material chosen precisely in order to appeal to them. Whereas they didn&#039;t embrace Jennings because he was continuing to do more or less the same sort of material, which wasn&#039;t their thing.

Both those approaches are legitimate, I think. But one of them is more likely than the other to bring in new listeners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If by &#8220;the market&#8221; you mean &#8220;a new audience of younger listeners,&#8221; then I&#8217;d say that they embraced Cash because he was doing something new, including material chosen precisely in order to appeal to them. Whereas they didn&#8217;t embrace Jennings because he was continuing to do more or less the same sort of material, which wasn&#8217;t their thing.</p>
<p>Both those approaches are legitimate, I think. But one of them is more likely than the other to bring in new listeners.</p>
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		<title>By: luckyoldsun</title>
		<link>http://www.engine145.com/roots-watch-country-icons-and-family-legacies/#comment-11561</link>
		<dc:creator>luckyoldsun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2011 06:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.engine145.com/?p=18259#comment-11561</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why the market completely turned against Waylon in the last decade of his life. Johnny Cash--who had really been thought of as washed up for many years--got to enjoy a commercial/cultural resurgence, with his albums receiving a lot of attention and respectable sales. Waylon put out some very good albums in the &#039;90s, and they mostly sunk without a trace.(And unlike Cash, Waylon&#039;s &#039;90s albums consisted of mostly self-written material!)

It was sad that Waylon seemed so bitter toward the end, but I guess he had good reasons to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why the market completely turned against Waylon in the last decade of his life. Johnny Cash&#8211;who had really been thought of as washed up for many years&#8211;got to enjoy a commercial/cultural resurgence, with his albums receiving a lot of attention and respectable sales. Waylon put out some very good albums in the &#8217;90s, and they mostly sunk without a trace.(And unlike Cash, Waylon&#8217;s &#8217;90s albums consisted of mostly self-written material!)</p>
<p>It was sad that Waylon seemed so bitter toward the end, but I guess he had good reasons to be.</p>
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